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What Men Will Wear To The Royal Wedding


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#19 Nishijin

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 08:09 AM

Waist line is way too hihg on Elton John. Though having a high waistline on a lounge coat is a good idea, it does not work on a body coat : it makes a short torso, which, far from elongating and slimming the figure, does quite the opposite. Prince Albert of Monaco looks far better in his morning coat.

That said, I like the skirt on Elton John's coat. We don't have the "stovepipe" effect that we can see on the fellow near him.

The shoulder is a mess, though. It seems that the cloth is very light, and those cloths are very difficult to keep in shape, indeed.
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#20 Artist's Eye

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 12:17 PM

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What do you think of David Beckham? I read he's wearing custom Ralph Lauren.


It's been mentioned that Mr Beckham didn't wear his hat. From this photo I'm not sure he could, as I think it's a few sizes too large.

I really liked the fact that his coat was more fitting, as a body coat should be.

Not sure about the shirt collar, though it's hard to see here, it's not a wing collar in the traditional style. (maybe it's better that it isn't)
Perhaps it's a modern edgy touch but I think I'd have preferred to have seen a turndown collar.

OBE was on the wrong side.

Overall quite good; I don't think those mistakes he did make are burning offences.

#21 NJS

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:43 AM

May the Good Lord preserve us and keep us.
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#22 I.Brackley

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:56 AM

The shoulder is a mess, though. It seems that the cloth is very light, and those cloths are very difficult to keep in shape, indeed.


Noticed the wrinkles. Same thing might be happeneing on the skirt just below the right knee. I imagine things like this and that mysterious crease in Becks' skirt coat may well have come from the wearers not taking care to lift their tails out the way before sitting. This is particularily a problem with negotiating entering and exiting automobiles.
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#23 Sator

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:58 AM

The Toronto Globe & Mail reported on Friday that it was "fitted by Kashket and Partners".


http://www.firminhouse.com/default.htm

Their website announce that the uniform and garments for the wedding party were made by them.

HRH Prince William of Wales entrusted tailor Mr Russell Kashket to make uniforms, headwear and clothing to be worn by the Prince and members of his wedding party. This is in addition to existing MOD contracts in place with the Kashket Group for the manufacture of the entire Ceremonial Military Uniforms for all Armed Forces personnel on parade.

Firmin House is a brand of the Kashket Group (incorporating Firmin & Sons, Kashket & Partners, E C Snaith & Son and Patey Hats) a tailoring company with history dating back to 1655 on London’s, The Strand.

Among the items made by Kashket for the Royal Wedding were the Prince’s Irish Guards Tunic, Overalls, Frockcoat and Military Caps as well as the Page Boys Uniforms. Prince Harry also had a number of uniforms created for the occasion. Extra sets of suits were created for both Princes for the wedding reception.

The Kashket Irish Guards suit reflects the fact that Prince William was recently made a Colonel of the Regiment of the Irish Guards. Her Majesty The Queen is the Colonel in Chief.

The Kashket company, who supplied uniforms to Admiral Nelson and both of the armies at the Battle of Gettysburg, holds healthy domestic and international order books.

Mr Kashket said: “We are greatly honoured to receive this order. We believe we are one of the finest tailors and hat-makers in the world, and this is the most momentous wedding the world has seen this decade.”

The group services the high quality uniform, suiting, headwear and accessory requirements of seven foreign Royal Households (including King Abdullah of Jordan) and more than 200 government and private sector clients in 36 countries.

Mr Kashket is promoting a high quality product in a global market. The Kashket USP is that they have an age defying alteration service, meaning if in ten years time you need a repair, Kashket & Partners will include this in the original price – “We remind the world that if you buy cheap you will buy twice,” he said.

Patey Hats make equine and traditional headwear. Their team includes Yvette Jelfs, the milliner, and they are based at Connaught Street, offering the very best in British tradition and Haute Couture.

Stafford Street, Mayfair, is the studio and fitting rooms of Kashket & Partners for their premium hand made, individually tailored suits finished with Firmin & Sons buttons.


Elton John's dress 'designed' by Richard James (designed, not made?)


Yes, designed. This is the correct use of the term "designer". They really designed the pattern, rather than just scratching out a doodle.
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#24 Charles R Bingley

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:59 AM

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What do you think of David Beckham? I read he's wearing custom Ralph Lauren.


Did not like much of it really. Disregrading the fit (which is okay); the floppy wing collar, the fancy dress hat and wearing the OBE on the wrong side completely destroys the ensemble.

(I won't mention the King of Tonga because of the Frenchesque ban/fatwa...)

Edited by Charles R Bingley, 02 May 2011 - 01:04 AM.

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#25 I.Brackley

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:01 AM

It's been mentioned that Mr Beckham didn't wear his hat. From this photo I'm not sure he could, as I think it's a few sizes too large.


Or he didn't want to muss up his hair :Star: :ermm:
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#26 Charles R Bingley

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:06 AM

Seeing as the knives are out and sharpened, what do people think of Mr. John's habit?
He's not exactly a trim figure either. His skirt isn't obstructing his lap, the waistline is higher, and it isn't overly long in the tails, something that I feel spoils the look of many of these other examples and works against the garment's sporty pedigree (which is indeed part of its appeal)

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I think the button/waist level is too low for both. And John's shirt sleeves are too long.

Edited by Charles R Bingley, 02 May 2011 - 01:07 AM.

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#27 Sator

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:26 AM

Waist line is way too high on Elton John. Though having a high waistline on a lounge coat is a good idea, it does not work on a body coat : it makes a short torso, which, far from elongating and slimming the figure, does quite the opposite.


The real trouble is that the morning coat is a body coat. That's a coat for showing off the body. For a start, you need a body to show off - that, he lacks and so isn't really suited for a body coat to start with!!! In the 19th century they even used to wear skin tight pantaloons with their body coats. Now, that was really showing off your wares - going after the Classicist nude effect:

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There is almost a touch of homo-eroticism in the 19th century Greco-Roman Classicist tailoring ideal. In Brummell's time expressions of love between men were considered normal, along with walking arm in arm and other physical contact. Nor is it a coincidence that Brummell died of the effects of syphilis.

All a body coat does on an out-of-shape figure is to draw more attention to the fact. Old farts and fat boys should be banned from wearing them, as it does them no favours. The tails look like they are there to trip on, or worse it makes the figure look a potato on toothpicks. Put it on an athletic figure like Beckham - and BANG, the dashing figure of Mr Darcy comes back to life in the blink of an eye, and the tails just elongate a tall figure even more. You can nitpick all you like but you can't take that away from him (maybe some of you are jealous?). For to truly be able to pull off a body coat, you need to have more than a little bit of the 19th century rogue in you that had the unspeakable insolence to wear a riding coat to town. It's an insolence that Beckham has in bloody droves.

Want to wear a body coat? Get thee to the gym!

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As for height of waist seam on body coats, that's a whole subject on its own right. In the Victorian and Edwardian era, the waist tended to be quite long. The waist became quite short mid century. In the end, the answer as to what is right is "it depends". A short legged man needs a higher waist. The higher the waist, though the shorter the torso and if you exaggerate that will rob you of height.
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#28 NJS

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:58 AM

The main reason that I detest the Beckhams (both of them, not just him) is that they are uppity intellectual and spiritual blanks and, actually, physically unremarkable to boot; especially in their dullards' eyes: but they have pushed themselves forward as some kind of role models and ideals, which they are not: as a footballer, he never delivered when it mattered; he goofed every time and, as a singer, she is painful to listen to: moreover, they seldom smile or seem to have any appreciation for anything outside their own small sphere. Maybe, the clothes that he is wearing are expensive but the hat I repeat, looks as though he bought it in a toy shop; he would have no idea how to wear it and they both look ill at ease and edgily self-conscious. I though that Middleton Pere et fils were 1000 X better presented that Beckham.

As for being jealous: I'd like their money and would spend it far better than they - but as for swapping lives: what a joke.
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#29 Sator

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:06 AM

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I like the choice of almost plain grey trousers (with a self stripe or herringbone weave?) rather than boldly striped ones. You cannot put the waist higher than that. It is already at the level of the belly button. The only problem is that he is portly and you can't fix that. Other than that, it is actually well cut given the limitations of the figure it is made for. The better cut the body coat the more it draws attention to the potato on toothpicks:

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Funny he didn't find a pearl tie pin to match his ear ring :Big Grin: And thank heavens that men no longer wear skin tight pantaloons with their body coats. They used to cut them even tighter than the tightest of rock star jeans.

In any case, he should be on the ban list of people who are not permitted to wear body coats until fixing up their physiques. Surely he can afford a personal trainer???
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#30 Sator

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:14 AM



As for being jealous


I don't deny a word of what you say. When I say jealous, I mean nothing more than his athletic build. He cuts a good figure, even if what is between the ears is hardly worthy of reverence.
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#31 NJS

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:42 AM

I don't deny a word of what you say. When I say jealous, I mean nothing more than his athletic build. He cuts a good figure, even if what is between the ears is hardly worthy of reverence.


So far as I am concerned: he is undoubtedly fitter than I am, as I am older and more - ahem - seasoned; he is probably 2" taller than I am and maybe his chest is 2" broader but I'd match him on the waist and legs, so, in my case, it is not jealousy in that way at all: it is, maybe, bewilderment and dismay that such as this pair (and her pair is fake,remember) have convinced the world that the sun shines out of their backsides. That's all it is. I am sorry but I still don't agree that he cuts a good figure at all: to me he looks like a fish out of water.
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#32 Sator

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:53 AM

Ha ha! Well, I'm not going to split hairs over this one with you, NJS. :drinks: For the record my favourite athlete of our times is Roger Federer because, at his peak, his game looked more like all conquering artistry than muscular athleticism - though above all for his rare grace and wit, in victory as well as defeat. As for female vocalists of our time, it is without any doubt Cecilia Bartoli.
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#33 NJS

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 03:25 AM

Ha ha! Well, I'm not going to split hairs over this one with you, NJS. :drinks: For the record my favourite athlete of our times is Roger Federer because, at his peak, his game looked more like all conquering artistry than muscular athleticism - though above all for his rare grace and wit, in victory as well as defeat. As for female vocalists of our time, it is without any doubt Cecilia Bartoli.


If they had invited Roger Federer and Cecilia Bartoli, there would be more justification for it; although I think that most professional 'sportsmen' and women are a total shower. Presumably, 'Posh Spice' (Jeez!) instructed 'Becks' to 'get in with' the Princes when 'Becks' and they were watching the England football team performing in their last World Cup humiliation.

Even if one were not aiming for the height of Cecilia Bartoli, popular female vocalists such as Diana Krall and the late Julie London make Mrs Beckham sound like an off-key, spluttering fishwife.

Diana Krall:



Julie London:



The trouble is that the members of the royal family are not the sharpest cards in the pack (nor do they need to be) but they seem to follow the herd, instead of leading it. Maybe all this sounds 'nasty' of me - but the fact of the matter is that the world has acquiesced in allowing divots like the Beckhams to push themselves to the front of the class when they have little really to offer and I like to 'tell it like it is'. :hi:

PS Sator - Like Pinkerton's Detective Agency "You never sleep".

Edited by NJS, 02 May 2011 - 04:32 AM.

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#34 0815newbie

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 09:18 AM

... Wing collars with morning dress went out with Neville Chamberlain. ....


Sorry, but I do not get the point of such arguments.

You can ask which looks better than the other or wich is more understated etc. but you cannot realy argue like: "Oh people have stopped doing this or that 10 years ago, so it must have been crap anyway. Let us stop thinking about it and abandon it forever.".

This is bad style and leads only to intellectual stupor.

For instance people stopped wearing hats in germany after the era of Konrad Adenauer (at least at the end of the 50s). However, hats can look sharp if choosen wisely etc.

Edited by 0815newbie, 02 May 2011 - 09:19 AM.


#35 Sator

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:07 AM

I think that as long as the dress looks fashionable and sharp, it doesn't matter. By "looking fashionable", no, I don't mean dressing up in bizarre, ill fitting catwalk costumes. Gary Cooper looks fine in morning dress with a winged collar:

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As long as it looks in fashion and modern, and not like you're in period costume, it's fine by me. Also, I don't care if the wings look floppy, or even if the collar is attached. Wings always look floppy anyway, starched or not.

I also don't get the point of the idea that you absolutely "have to" adhere to some sort of rigid dress coat at all. There is nothing harder than making some fairly established fashion like morning dress look modern and stylish. You can still see people trying to update it. For example the majority of men omitted the top hat altogether. The other thing that people commonly do these days is to wear brightly coloured ties with their morning coats. Personally, I think these are half hearted steps in the wrong direction.

I would have love to have unleashed the imagination of a real designer like Davide Taub to go wild on the morning coat - curved seams, and extra panelling would looked great been on the garment. It's also funny that we saw no narrow Mad Men styled lapels.
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#36 tailleuse

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:33 AM

Here's another common problem that you sometimes see:

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I think that Prince Albert of Monaco's morning coat doesn't have enough cutaway and is too bellied. It makes the wearer look bellied too.

The coat would have been a lot more slimming and elongating if you cut away the skirt a bit more:

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The main thing is that the lapels and skirt cutaway should form a clear X:

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You should avoid a quasi-Y shape:






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His coat reminds me of the carapace of an insect.


Edited by tailleuse, 02 May 2011 - 10:34 AM.

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