176 replies to this topic

[tailleuse]

I've enjoyed reading everyone's comments. Thanks.

[Sator]

His coat reminds me of the carapace of an insect.

Yes, it looks terrible:





Who the hell cares if what he is wearing is "correct".

[Charles R Bingley]

Re: Wing collars and neckties. I do not have any objections to the style (some of my friends do it: see photo) but I am still saying that a low unstarched collar looks floppy and untidy than a high starched one. You only need to compare the difference in crispness between Beckham and Cooper to see a big difference it makes.

As for 'correctness', they are all 'correct' in the broadest sense but we want to critique the fit and style choices otherwise we won't be having this discussion.


Me and friends at a Royal Wedding street party.

Edited by Charles R Bingley, 04 May 2011 - 12:58 AM.

[NJS]

Shown mainly for the first Mrs S's smile.

Edited by Sator, 02 May 2011 - 11:13 PM.

[NJS]

Edited by Nishijin, 03 May 2011 - 10:23 PM.
Image link fixed

[NJS]

And, for completeness, here (from many moons ago), is the outfit with the hat.

[eboli]

As for female vocalists of our time, it is without any doubt Cecilia Bartoli.

*Gasp* Sator's going nuts!!
Cecilia is a nice, good looking person with talent for music. She could have been a respectable soprano, but she was hustled into darkening and lowering her voice, which developed into a real disaster. Her vocal folds do not fully close, so there's a lot of air to be heard. Hence her voice is too small for an average dimensioned theater (she couldn't even fill the Kleine Festspielhaus in Salzburg!) let alone for an "AA"-house like the Met, the Scala or the Wiener Staatsoper. She should have sticked with Fiordiligi, Donna Elvira.
BTW, I've known just one Soprano who successfully turned into a Mezzo, i.e. whose voice survived such a rape, that's Fiorenza Cossotto.

Edited by eboli, 04 May 2011 - 07:14 AM.

[Sator]

^ I've read similar complaints damning Maria Callas in her age - horrible, harsh, sounding voice, technically insecure and what it pity it was that they didn't make them like they used to.

[Charles R Bingley]

For completeness, a separate occasion:

Edited by Charles R Bingley, 05 May 2011 - 02:59 AM.

[Nishijin]

Thank you for sharing those pictures. Sorry, RJS and Charles R Bingley, but I'm much more convinced by David Beckham's outfit. There are many mistakes, the most prominent one beeing the wrong side for the medal, but at least he looks dressed in something contemporary, made today for someone living today. Stiff collar, pocket watch chain, spats, cane and gloves... This looks far too costumey for me. Looks like you're traveling time.
Gosh, you even made me like Mr Beckham's hat...


And to make my point : I don't understand how wearing spats and top hat, in addition to a body coat, could not be costume at a party where everybody seems to be in shirtsleeves and caps. Why on Earth wear a most formal outfit to a relaxed event ?

[culverwood]

I have to say I rather like David Beckham's outfit. A modern take on the subject which works for me. He seems not to be wearing a waistcoat. Why do we persist on wearing waistcoats with morning coats and not follow Mr Lauren's lead and ditch it? I would have preferred a turn-down collar but at least it was a modern wing collar which suited the rest of what he was wearing well. Shame about the "medal".

[NJS]

Thanks Nishijin for fixing the links. Douglas Heywood also had a thing against waistcoats. For me, they make it all rather neater. But I can see why fashionistos, such as Lauren, create the Becks' look, to appear in step with the modern world.

[Sator]

I don't understand how wearing spats and top hat, in addition to a body coat, could not be costume at a party where everybody seems to be in shirtsleeves and caps. Why on Earth wear a most formal outfit to a relaxed event ?

I think spats look totally affected and quite ridiculous. Piling on other gaudy affectations like watch chains and walking stick in a contemporary dress context, is in my opinion an infinitely worse faux pas than Beckham sporting his OBE on the wrong side. Seeing it makes me want to wear ripped jeans with a morning coat.

As for the waistcoat:

[NJS]

Sator, ahem, I recall a picture of a vest that you have - high DB - quite Victorian design, with revers, worn with a 'stroller' - and a - yup - a watch chain.

[Sator]

But no morning coat, walking stick, top hat and certainly no spats. If I wore glasses, I would choose more modern and fashionable ones too.

You can add one or two little retro details and it can add a little bit of flavour. Add them all together and it becomes costume. I once read an interview with a women who was a collector of vintage garments and she said that you have to add modern accessories to avoid looking like you are in period dress. The same principle applies to men.

Anyway, having gone through a period of retro interest, I am more than a little over it after seeing a hoard of quite ghastly frock coats with ugly spats and the like. It all looks Steam Punk and Nosferatu the Vampyre to me. Unfortunately, I have acquired a bad reputation for being Herr Nosferatu in costume himself and this place attracts this type like flies to rotting flesh. Nothing I do seems to help in trying to get rid of this reputation.





I guess it's a similar problem to what killed off the first attempt at an Edwardian revivalist style. These days I can't look at anything that is too pre-1960s in style without a certain amount of revulsion, except perhaps in some exceptional cases.

Today I am even inclined to say that ditching the morning coat for a lounge suit is fine. Generally, the lounge suit is modern formal morning dress. The morning coat is ultra formal or ceremonial dress and in the case under discussion virtually court dress. Most men look terrible in body coats anyway, as it shows off too much of the body.

[Charles R Bingley]

I have to say I rather like David Beckham's outfit. A modern take on the subject which works for me. He seems not to be wearing a waistcoat. Why do we persist on wearing waistcoats with morning coats and not follow Mr Lauren's lead and ditch it?

Because to leave out the waistcoat would create an untidy look with the tie and shirt and waistband and etc? The waistcoat keeps that all packed in and neat and creates contrast with the surrounding area.

I suppose I should warn you never to watch or go to Royal Ascot at this juncture in case you, as we Brits would say, 'go mental' from seeing all those waistcoats...

Edited by Charles R Bingley, 05 May 2011 - 03:33 AM.

[I.Brackley]

Today I am even inclined to say that ditching the morning coat for a lounge suit is fine.

Favourbrook offer this as a compromise: http://www.favourbro...Black-Barathea/

I quite like it and would like to see this sort of cut used more often to fill festive niches day and night. Conceivably something like this could pull "double duty" and serve as ceremonial/high formal day dress in place of the morning coat as well as being suitable for contemporary formal evening wear (what would once have been simply called "black tie").

[Charles R Bingley]

If I wore glasses, I would choose more modern and fashionable ones too.

or



?