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Naples bespoke (but not Rubinacci).


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#1 carpu65

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:35 AM

Three bespoke coats from Naples:

First is by Antonio Panico.
(Panico was the main cutter of Rubinacci in 90s).

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Second is by Vincenzo Attolini (the tailor)
Is a bespoke suit,not made on measure or ready to wear.

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The third is by Renato Ciardi:

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Well,i like Ciardi (maybe with a slightly narrow lapels,and obviously a more sober cloth).

#2 Sator

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 12:37 PM

Of all of the Neapolitan tailors you have introduced us to, the one whose workmanship interests me most is actually Pirozzi. You can see a lot of work goes into the canvas, with lots of careful shaping.

#3 carpu65

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:30 PM

Yes,Pirozzi is the most interesting also in my opinion,and is more versatile for the style.
I don't like particularly Panico,I am not convinced about his shoulders and lapels.
Vincenzo Attolini is more clean.
I think also that Ciardi is interesting,his coat have pleasent shoulders and fantastic ironing of lapels.
Is the classic 50s Neapolitan coat.
Ciardi (77 years) was the pupil of Nicola Blasi.
Is renowned for dinner jackets and tailcoats.

#4 carpu65

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 01:33 PM

Renato Ciardi:



#5 gatto

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:13 PM

this is my little contribution.

A documentary done by a friend of mine, that will give you little flavour of Napoli and his tailors !





Ciao to everybody !
Gatto
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#6 Schneidergott

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 11:59 PM

this is my little contribution.

A documentary done by a friend of mine, that will give you little flavour of Napoli and his tailors !





Ciao to everybody !
Gatto


Is that documentary now finished and out there somewhere to watch? This trailer has been around for quite some time.
Is that documentary for sale (private download location link after a certain small amount of money has been paid)?

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#7 carpu65

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 09:32 AM

A young Neapolitan tailor,Gianni Marigliano.

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#8 carpu65

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 09:48 AM

Pirozzi 30s style:
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Pirozzi 60s style:

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Edited by carpu65, 08 May 2011 - 12:37 PM.


#9 Sator

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:18 PM

What impresses me is that Pirozzi goes to all the trouble to make these incredibly labour intensive sculpted shoulders:

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You rarely, if ever, sees shoulders like this being made. The reason is that few clients are educated enough to appreciate the amount of work and skill that goes into them. It takes a really knowledgeable client to appreciate these. Instead, you see praise for droopy, sad shoulders that are supposed to be more high class because the droop shows that they are "soft". Anyone home sewer can and does make shoulders that droop.

I am less keen on the extended front dart:

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Then again, some Savile Row firms do that too. I only think that is desirable when you have patch pockets. Otherwise, I prefer to displace that extended seam back a little, so that is not as visible - yet, still does the same thing.

It should be mentioned that elements like the dramatic slanted side pockets and their large pockets flaps, with widely set apart ticket pocket are all things that can be changed to taste. I imagine that these things were discussed when the order was taken. Pirozzi is clearly not afraid to add a touch of flamboyance to coats. It is usual for iGents to imagine that these sorts of touches are all automated features of some robotically manufactured "house style" :rolleyes:. In reality it take a few seconds for the apprentice to change these things to taste and fashion - unlike the shoulder construction, which takes a master tailor years to learn to do properly.

#10 carpu65

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:59 PM

What impresses me is that Pirozzi goes to all the trouble to make these incredibly labour intensive sculpted shoulders:

You rarely, if ever, sees shoulders like this being made. The reason is that few clients are educated enough to appreciate the amount of work and skill that goes into them. It takes a really knowledgeable client to appreciate these. Instead, you see praise for droopy, sad shoulders that are supposed to be more high class because the droop shows that they are "soft". Anyone home sewer can and does make shoulders that droop.



Well,sculpted shoulders are beautifull,i agree, but i think that is also matter of taste.
I don't think that all those that ask for natural shoulders are ineducated;
is only that prefer natural shoulders.
Personally i like shoulders like this:

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But i don't think that this is a "sad" shoulder:

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Edited by carpu65, 08 May 2011 - 01:02 PM.


#11 Sator

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 02:17 PM

These are preferences that certainly change according to fashion. Fashion is subjective. What is objective is that the saddle ("insellata") shaped shoulder that Pirozzi makes is very difficult to make. I think it is true that people prefer what is familiar. The low shoulder is familiar because it is common and easy enough for even home sewers to make. Then again not everyone likes truffles and foie gras.

#12 carpu65

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 12:25 AM

You have right,but i remember that when "insellata" shoulder was in fashion,many asked for natural shoulders,and i talk about the era before Igents,when for the crowd "Naples was only the city of the pizza.
So is right that today the conformists want natural shoulders or "spalla camicia",but not all that ask for these things are ineducate conformists.

#13 gatto

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 04:33 PM

Is that documentary now finished and out there somewhere to watch? This trailer has been around for quite some time.
Is that documentary for sale (private download location link after a certain small amount of money has been paid)?



Just wrote to Gianluca Migliarotti and asked. I will let you know as soon as I get an answear.
Gatto

#14 carpu65

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 01:31 AM

These are the two type of traditional Neapolitan shoulders: "Spalla insellata and "spalla camicia".

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In old times "spalla camicia" was only for light and unlined summer suits in linen or coton.
Is said that were aristocrats Rubinacci's customers in late 30s-40s to carry "spalla camicia" on winter lounge suits:
Was a sort of "inside jokes",the sense of the thing was "for our is ever summer and holiday".
Obviously these smart peoples were copied; but until internet advent,"spalla camicia" was a thing not very see out of Naples,
and also Rubinacci not make only this type of shoulder (under a 40s Rubinacci coat)

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#15 carpu65

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 01:36 AM

This is another famous Neapolitan tailor: Gennaro Solito.

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#16 Sator

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 10:33 AM

I have spoken to an Italian tailor from further north and he knew about the manica camicia. He just regarded it as a rather lazy way of setting sleeves, that was easier to do but a cheap and nasty short-cut that he usually won't condescend to doing.

The other thing is that this is probably related to the giacca camicia - no canvas, padding etc at all. That would be the most extreme version of the soft tailored coat. The same Italian tailor from further north refuses to make these as well.

I wonder if these are really more like short-cuts just to reduce costs?

#17 carpu65

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 01:02 PM

I have spoken to an Italian tailor from further north and he knew about the manica camicia. He just regarded it as a rather lazy way of setting sleeves, that was easier to do but a cheap and nasty short-cut that he usually won't condescend to doing.

The other thing is that this is probably related to the giacca camicia - no canvas, padding etc at all. That would be the most extreme version of the soft tailored coat. The same Italian tailor from further north refuses to make these as well.

I wonder if these are really more like short-cuts just to reduce costs?


I don't know,but i don't think.
But keep in mind that in origin "spalla-camicia" shoulders were only for a type of Neapolitan summer unlined "shirtlike jacket"
(a sort of "lounge bush Jacket").
I don't like at all,but is a regional particularity,not a fraud.
Is the Neapolitan equivalent of American undarted coats
Is vernacular,but i would not be so severe with it.

Edited by carpu65, 12 May 2011 - 01:10 PM.


#18 brescd01

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 09:08 PM

Can you show pictures of this garment?




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