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What is this military ensemble called?


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#1 tailleuse

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:09 AM

Not a great photo, but here's a picture of Hadley Fraser, an actor in The Phantom of the Opera.


What do you call his ensemble, which is a military jacket with what I think is an attached cape, or perhaps it's a jacket? I've only seen this garment/costume a couple of times in the movies. Usually, it looks very awkward, but this actor carried it off.





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#2 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:10 PM

Actually that "cape" is another coat called a Pelisse worn by Hussars. It is typically worn draped over the left shoulder but was large enough to wear over the short tunic as well.
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#3 tailleuse

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:22 PM

Actually that "cape" is another coat called a Pelisse worn by Hussars. It is typically worn draped over the left shoulder but was large enough to wear over the short tunic as well.


Thank you. Does the cape attach to the tunic with a loop?

I looked it up on Wikipedia, which says a lanyard was used.



Edited by tailleuse, 17 March 2012 - 01:06 PM.

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#4 tailleuse

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:57 PM

Actually that "cape" is another coat called a Pelisse worn by Hussars. It is typically worn draped over the left shoulder but was large enough to wear over the short tunic as well.


Have you ever seen The Phantom of the Opera? If so, what do you think of the men's costumes? It's nominally set in France, but I assume the costumes are Victorian. (Or maybe upper class men's clothing in the two countries was similar.) I noticed that most of the men in the opera scenes were wearing tailcoats with trousers (I assume they would be called "evening dress suits"). All the body coats had puffed sleeves.

I can't immediately find any good close-ups of the tail coat.

I like the character Raoul's waistcoat. I assume it would be called a semi-U shaped front with piping, double-breasted with double points. I see that there are small vents at the side. I wonder if they are usual or were added because this is a costume.

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#5 Nishijin

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

This is a designer interpretation of a Hussard or Dragon uniform. The tunic is called a dolman, and the small coat worn on the shoulder as a cape is a pelisse indeed.
The sleeves are wrong, though: the braiding is modern, when it should be made ith loops similar to those on the coat.

The Phantom of the Opera takes story happens in Paris in the end of the XIXth c. (the action is place in the Opéra Garnier, which was built from 1860 to 1875).

At this time, English dress was favored all over Europe, and there are no fundamental difference between French and English evening dress.


The waistcoat is a typical silk evening dress coat. And yes, slits on the hips are frequent on waistcoats, I always make some on mine. It is necessary to sit.
The fit of this WC is horrible, though. Do you see how the lapels gap on the chest ?
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#6 jeffrey2117

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:19 AM

Hello Sir,

I believe I recall seeing these uniform styles in an old movie from 1936 or 1937, The prisoner of Zenda, starring Ronald Coleman.

If you wish to view a good variety of this type of uniform clothing, that is well fitting, view this movie.

Regards

Jeffrey 2117
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#7 Nishijin

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 02:00 AM

Tailleuse, here you can see more details on one uniform of this kind. There are many variations, depending on the period and military unit it belongs to.

http://www.antikcost...-c370-a1177.htm

The blue coat worn closed on the body is a dolman, the red coat with fur lining, worn here on the shoulder, is a pelisse.

The name "pelisse" is still used today for overcoats with a fur lining and collar.
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#8 tailleuse

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:27 AM

This is a designer interpretation of a Hussard or Dragon uniform. The tunic is called a dolman, and the small coat worn on the shoulder as a cape is a pelisse indeed.
The sleeves are wrong, though: the braiding is modern, when it should be made ith loops similar to those on the coat.

The Phantom of the Opera takes story happens in Paris in the end of the XIXth c. (the action is place in the Opéra Garnier, which was built from 1860 to 1875).

At this time, English dress was favored all over Europe, and there are no fundamental difference between French and English evening dress.


The waistcoat is a typical silk evening dress coat. And yes, slits on the hips are frequent on waistcoats, I always make some on mine. It is necessary to sit.
The fit of this WC is horrible, though. Do you see how the lapels gap on the chest ?


Thanks, Nishijin. I see what you mean about the lapels. I thought it was caused by his stance in that photo.

Before I posed my question, I'd heard the word "pelisse" once or twice in a reference to the woman's garment.



Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#9 tailleuse

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:30 AM

Hello Sir,

I believe I recall seeing these uniform styles in an old movie from 1936 or 1937, The prisoner of Zenda, starring Ronald Coleman.

If you wish to view a good variety of this type of uniform clothing, that is well fitting, view this movie.

Regards

Jeffrey 2117


Thank you. I've seen the film, and it's shown on cable a few times a year. I'll try to catch it. I had thought of this as as a Central/Eastern European military style, but it was/is more widespread.

BTW, if you were responding to me, I'm a woman. Posted Image



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#10 tailleuse

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:33 AM

Tailleuse, here you can see more details on one uniform of this kind. There are many variations, depending on the period and military unit it belongs to.

http://www.antikcost...-c370-a1177.htm

The blue coat worn closed on the body is a dolman, the red coat with fur lining, worn here on the shoulder, is a pelisse.

The name "pelisse" is still used today for overcoats with a fur lining and collar.


Thank you! I had learned from Wikipedia that the short coat is called a "dolman," which was interesting because previously, I'd only heard of the term "dolman sleeve," another instance of women's fashion adapting men's military dress.



Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#11 Digby Snaffles

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:25 AM

Hussar Photos

Officer in the Yorkshire Hussars
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#12 tailleuse

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

Hussar Photos

Officer in the Yorkshire Hussars


Thank you. Posted Image The second photo gives me a much better idea of how the pelisse was attached.

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#13 Bjorn

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:49 AM

Looks like a 'vapenrock' in Swedish, which translates into waffenrock in German.
Some examples may be found in this Swedish museum: http://emuseumplus.l...sp=0&sp=F&sp=20
This picture was good: http://emuseumplus.lsh.se/eMuseumPlus?service=direct/1/ResultLightboxView/result.t1.collection_lightbox.$TspTitleImageLink.link&sp=10&sp=Scollection&sp=SfieldValue&sp=0&sp=9&sp=3&sp=Slightbox_4x5&sp=20&sp=Sdetail&sp=0&sp=F&sp=T&sp=21
The 'standing' collar, and it being a short coat, seems essential.
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#14 tailleuse

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:54 AM

Looks like a 'vapenrock' in Swedish, which translates into waffenrock in German.
Some examples may be found in this Swedish museum: http://emuseumplus.l...sp=0&sp=F&sp=20
This picture was good: http://emuseumplus.l...sp=F&sp=T&sp=21
The 'standing' collar, and it being a short coat, seems essential.


Thank you. I got an error message with the link, but typed in "vapenrock" into the search screen and got some images.

Every time I see a "Ruritanian Romance" film on TV I look to see if the men are wearing pelisses.



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#15 jeffrey2117

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 12:01 PM

Thank you. I've seen the film, and it's shown on cable a few times a year. I'll try to catch it. I had thought of this as as a Central/Eastern European military style, but it was/is more widespread.

BTW, if you were responding to me, I'm a woman. smile.gif

Oops! Apologize for that, just an oversight on my part.  Say, what happened to the editor for correcting posts?? :-)

 

Jeffrey 2117


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