Jump to content


Photo

Rundschau Skirt Draft with Prominent Seat


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:09 PM

Hello all,

This is my first time posting but I have been reading the Cutter and Tailor forums for a few months and I'm so grateful for all the amazing resources and knowledge that has been posted here.

I have finally taken the plunge and drafted a skirt using the Rundschau instructions for a figure with a prominent seat. Thanks in advance for any advice or feedback on fitting!

I hope these pictures work! If not, please bear with me.
Here is the pattern itself.
Posted Image

The muslin:
Posted Image

http://2.bp.blogspot.../s1600/back.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot...1600/side 2.JPG

I've traced the side seam to make it more visible. It seems to be swinging forward at the hem, and a little bit further back at the waist than I would like.

I think something like this would be better?

http://wardrobedysfu...st-picture.html

The ease in this pattern makes the skirt sit a little bit below my natural waist. I'm planning to add a waist band and lining to the actual garment. Should I leave the ease as it is?

I also need to straighten out the front waist line, and find a flattering hem length. And there is a little bit of extra fullness just above the widest part of my hips at the side (I have very low hips).

I'm looking forward to your feedback. Please let me know any other fitting issues that you can see the recommended solution for fixing the side seam (can I just change the angle of the line L2-G2?). Thanks for your help!
  • tailleuse likes this

#2 Der Zuschneider

Der Zuschneider

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,424 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX, Houston
  • Interests:- German Cutting Systems
    - Modern Tailoring by German Semi-Traditional Standards

Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

The darts in the back are not correct placed and they have a different length and you are taken out too much. The front skirt also needs a small dart. Also you can shrink in 1cm in order to keep the darts small.
Those hints are probably somewhere hidden in the forum posts already.
  • tailleuse likes this
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#3 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 22 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

Before I dive deeper into a response a few general hints about accessing ones general figure. There are some figure deviations that occur quite often and yet may go unnoticed.
We all have a shoulder that "hangs" more than the other one, no matter whether or not your shoulders are straight, normal or sloping: One of them will show what is called a drop.
Unless you are unfortunate to suffer from some kind of bone disease, the drop will be found on the side where your working hand is. Along with the hanging shoulder comes a hip being stronger on the same side. And that's both the case with you:

Posted Image

Now about your pattern: As you can see in the image above you need length in the front, as there is a significant gap between the upper edge of the skirt front and the tape at your waist; plus you need additional length over your right hip.
To sort these two things out you can use a weighted measuring tape (just add a little weight to the end that starts with 0) and measure from floor to the waist tape (front, side and back). Then you need to copy the pattern, make a cut at hip level (side seam to centre front) in the right front and back and open it by the amount the right side is longer.

Posted Image

The darts in the back are not placed correctly and they have a different length and you are taking out too much.


DZ is right, the darts are too close to the centre back and probably also too long:

Posted Image
  • tailleuse and zinc6 like this

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#4 posaune

posaune

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 945 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Germany

Posted 22 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

A remark besides:
where the front parts meet in CF you have to draft a right angle for about maybe 3 cm otherwise you get those V'S there. The ease in the waist works as a "comfort" zone e.g. when you sit down. The band has the right waist measurement and the skirt will be eased in.
You do the alterations Schneidergott showed and then sew on the waistband and look again at the fit.
lg
posaune
  • tailleuse likes this

#5 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:13 AM

Before I dive deeper into a response a few general hints about accessing ones general figure. There are some figure deviations that occur quite often and yet may go unnoticed.
We all have a shoulder that "hangs" more than the other one, no matter whether or not your shoulders are straight, normal or sloping: One of them will show what is called a drop.
Unless you are unfortunate to suffer from some kind of bone disease, the drop will be found on the side where your working hand is. Along with the hanging shoulder comes a hip being stronger on the same side.


Are there books or articles that discuss the common deviations and the interrelation, for example, low shoulder, strong hip usually occurs on the side with dominant hand? I did a quick search for "human anatomy for tailors and dressmakers" but didn't see anything.

Thanks for the interesting comment and kudos to DanaRose for having the courage to post photos.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#6 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:21 AM

Are there books or articles that discuss the common deviations and the interrelation, for example, low shoulder, strong hip usually occurs on the side with dominant hand? I did a quick search for "human anatomy for tailors and dressmakers" but didn't see anything.

Thanks for the interesting comment and kudos to DanaRose for having the courage to post photos.


I don't think there is something like an article on this subject. It's one of those things that come with experience over the years.
It's very good practice to watch the people around you and check for their "defects". But be warned, after a while you might become obsessed with it...Posted Image
  • tailleuse likes this

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#7 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:26 AM

I don't think there is something like an article on this subject. It's one of those things that come with experience over the years.
It's very good practice to watch the people around you and check for their "defects". But be warned, after a while you might become obsessed with it...Posted Image


I had a feeling it was something largely picked up over time. Posted Image Fascinating.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#8 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

The darts in the back are not correct placed and they have a different length and you are taken out too much. The front skirt also needs a small dart. Also you can shrink in 1cm in order to keep the darts small.
Those hints are probably somewhere hidden in the forum posts already.


Thanks for commenting! I did think it was strange that the draft that I used omitted the front dart, but I've heard that some figures are better off without. Looks like I'm not one of those. :twitch:

#9 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:18 AM

Thank you for your expert eye, Schneidergott! I had noticed the dropped shoulder but had totally missed the corresponding waist and hip tilt (gosh, I'm a mess!).

I'm really looking forward to my next try. Am I correct that I should end up with different right and left sides to the pattern?

You also mention that the back darts are probably too long (and in the wrong spot). What should I be looking for to determine the correct length? Is it just a matter of practice and observation or is there something in particular that will indicate when they are right? I know a dart should point towards the fullest part but I'm not sure about finding the right length.

Thank you for your help! :thumbsup:

#10 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:29 AM

where the front parts meet in CF you have to draft a right angle for about maybe 3 cm otherwise you get those V'S there.

I thought that was strange. The instructions that I used didn't have a right angle but I guess they were assuming I would use common sense?

The ease in the waist works as a "comfort" zone e.g. when you sit down.


I understand the purpose of ease but I have a hard time gauging how much ease is needed, especially because I'm used to using commercial patterns, which always seem to have way too much ease. I guess I just need more practice!

Thanks for commenting!

#11 Philip_AMS

Philip_AMS

    Apprentice

  • Professional
  • PipPip
  • 107 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

In order to keep darts smaller you can always shave off 1cm from the cb and run it to 0cm just above the hip line making an extra dart when you place the pattern at the CB, although keep in mind if its a stripe of check pattern that the skirt will be made in I try to avoid this
  • tailleuse likes this

#12 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:55 PM

You also mention that the back darts are probably too long (and in the wrong spot). What should I be looking for to determine the correct length? Is it just a matter of practice and observation or is there something in particular that will indicate when they are right? I know a dart should point towards the fullest part but I'm not sure about finding the right length.


Darts depend mostly on the shape and size of your buttocks. You made the right choice to use 2 darts in the back. They should stop above the strongest part of the back/ hips. If there is a large difference between waist and hip measurement you can give the darts a more convex shape to accommodate the hollow between waist and hips. I made a draft of the darts, first image shows 3 types of shape for the rear dart. The size for both images is A4 (1:1), so you can print them out if you like:

Posted Image

The two lines on the right show what I think is commonly used in commercial patterns (or in drafting manuals), but you should avoid both. The straight dart is not anatomical and the convex one can give you trouble with harder/ stiffer materials.
The shape of the left line is a combination of the convex shape (going down to 3 cm before the lower end of the dart) and a concave shape. This will work on any material.

For the front it's a bit different. Unless you have an extremely flat stomach (no darts needed, unless you need to take out some width at the waist), it should be concave:

Posted Image

About the ease: "Standard" is 1 cm (or 1/2") in the half draft (2 cm or 1" total), which is sufficient for most materials, for thicker ones you can add a bit extra (0,5 cm or 1/5 "). And yes, you would need a separate pattern for the right side of the skirt.
  • tailleuse likes this

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#13 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

Darts depend mostly on the shape and size of your buttocks...


I can't thank you enough. I'll be sure to incorporate them in my next draft.

#14 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:51 AM

Hello,

I've been working on making the alterations you recommended.

I made up a new skirt and realized I may have made a mistake. Before redoing the whole thing again, I was hoping that I could check in to make sure that I do understand where I went wrong now.

This is the alteration that was recommended to raise the right hip
http://i560.photobuc.../patternnew.jpg

I traced a copy of the pattern for the right side and slashed and spread both the front and the back and drew in new front and back centre lines to make them straight.

Here's what the right side of the pattern looks like.
Posted Image

This is what my new skirt looks like
Posted Image

http://4.bp.blogspot...ght to post.JPG

There seems to be some extra volume just above my buttocks and I realized that in Schneidergott's diagram, only the front centre line had to be re-drawn and not the back.

In the image below, you can see my original pattern in red, the pattern alteration that I used to make up the new skirt in black and what I think is now the correct alteration in green (the green waistline connects to the original centre back line)
http://4.bp.blogspot...alterations.JPG

Am I on the right track with the green alteration?

The front and side of my skirt now look like this.
Posted Image
Posted Image

As always, thanks for your insights!
  • tailleuse likes this

#15 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 25 June 2013 - 11:24 AM

Well, I've cut out and basted this skirt in a wool fabric. I included inlays for further adjustments.

 

post+front.JPG

 

post+back.JPG

 

post+right+side.JPG

 

post+left+side.JPG

 

The balance left-to-right is much improved but the side seams are pulling forward at the hem and the back hem is drooping a little bit. It kind of looks like the diagram for "Hips Thrust Forward" on page 44 of Cabrera's book. The book recommends " an addition of fabric and an adjustment at center front of the pattern, tapering to the side seam" So I'll give that a try.

 

It looks like it's still not fitting right at the small of my back. Can I increase the intake of the darts or should I take it out of the side seam?

 

Any advice would be wonderful. Thanks for your time.

 

Edit: I forgot to post pictures of my pattern.

 

The left side:

post+pattern+left.JPG

 

The right side:

post+pattern+right.JPG


Edited by DanaRose84, 25 June 2013 - 10:12 PM.

  • tailleuse likes this

#16 posaune

posaune

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 945 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Germany

Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

That is right (but not from the forward hips), as you can see the front needs more length it stands away from you body. But maybe your waist band is a bit tight and the skirt climbs? Better would be a formed waistband in your case.

In the back you need an other dartation. Not more than 4 cm dart intake per dart.  As nearer they are to side seam as shorter they get. And because of your spine I would take away at center back too. The waist is okay (maybe be a bit to small), so you part the darts intake into the 3 darts and form them nicely.

Sorry, the muslin did fit better then your new skirt (becaue of the waist).

lg posaune


  • tailleuse likes this

#17 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 27 June 2013 - 09:00 AM

Thank you posaune. I'll give these suggestions a try!

#18 DanaRose84

DanaRose84

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 13 posts

Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:34 PM

Back again with another crack at getting this skirt to fit.

 

Here it is with three darts on either side. I wasn't sure of the best way to do this so I tried draping in the darts on the right side and used the method for splitting one dart into three from the book Patternmaking for Fashion Design by Helen Joseph-Armstrong and the left side. I was careful to use the same amount of suppression on each side.

 

three+darts.JPG

 

P6300108.JPG

 

P6300109.JPG

 

I'm still having problems with excess folds of fabric just above the fullest part of my seat (and I've obviously put the darts on the left at too much of an angle). I'm happy with the fit at my waist (I haven't attached a waistband because I'll have to re-do these darts) and the fit seems to be correct at the fullest part of my seat, but just above the fullest part, I'm still having vertical wrinkles.

 

Please let me know if I'm just being overly picky with fit and should just leave the darts as they are. I know women can be overly picky with fit. I'm just not sure if this is as good as it can get with my body type. I do plan to line the skirt.

 

Otherwise, I saw these instructions posted here by Sator.

 

Pepin04.jpgI notice that the side seam of the front is more curved than the side seam for the back, presumably to compensate for the shaping that will be created by the intake of the back dart and the lack of front dart. The side seams for my pattern are almost symmetrical for front and back. Maybe next I will try distributing more of the suppression to the front side seam.

 

Should I try dividing the back into panels so I can get more shaping from seams?

 

Again, I'm so grateful for any help or advice. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users