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Rhinehart's Trouser draft - some lessons learned

Trousers Jane Rhinehart Making up draft

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#1 Henry Hall

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 12:04 PM

Hi all. I'm a new member in this incarnation, but have been coming here with another account for a few years. That account stopped functioning, so Sator has kindly readmitted my new account. :twitch:  Anyway...

 

I recently decided to give the trouser draft from Jane Rhinehart's book a run through. I actually drafted both hers and Mansie's simultaneously, but elected to make up the Rhinehart draft first (which I'm still busy finishing off). I have a nice piece of linen for the Mansie draft.

 

I don't know if anyone else has tried making up her draft (though I recall seeing the draft in another thread), but there are a few problemss I found that I thought I'd pass on in case anyone does want to follow her method:

 

  • Firstly, she only allows for inlays on the inseams and seat of the back part, rather than both the in- and side-seams inlays recommended in the MTOC chapter on Inlays. I considered just following the MTOC advice, but went with her method for the sake of following her method as an exercise. I now think it is a mistake, I'll say why further down.

 

  • There are some bothersome errors in both the cutting and making up sections. One particular error (or so it seems to me compared to the other drafts I've made up) is that she instructs the reader to cut out twice as many waistband linings and curtains than is required. She also has you fiddling about over the pocket bags for the front pockets, where most other methods have you just cut a fairly simple bag and perform any clipping for accommodation during construction.

 

  • She also instructs the reader to cut four hip pocket facings (two chalked out on double thickness), yet also has you cut two more of a different width from the silesia! (Perhaps I missed something, but as far as I can see these last two are superfluous). There are two upper fly facings where only one is needed (or she forgets to tell you what to do with one of them), and there is only one pocket tab chalked out rather than two.
  • I made only one hip pocket which left me more room for cutting the front pocket facings on the selvage. She recommends moving both or one of these latter from the selvage edge, if they are crowded out, and then overcasting the edges, but the front pockets (which are in-line seam pockets) suffer more from the extra bulk of overcast edges than would the hip pocket facing pieces. Not to mention the fact that your hands will pass over those front pocket facing pieces more than the hip pockets, imo. So it's probably best that both of those are selvage edges if they are exposed rather than turned.

 

  • Perhaps she's not the only one who is a bit spare on making up details, but she goes into detail about things that don't matter half as much as some things that actually do matter. It's no good mentioning that a piece of canvas is needed for the waistband, then giving no clear instruction about what to do with it. She also fails to mention how exactly the waistband pieces should be attached to enable the finishing of the front ends. I had to fall back on improvisation and other methods to finish the waistband at the fronts.

 

  • I also think her method of constructing the fly - though it produces a decent enough result - is not done at the most convenient stage of construction. She has you stitch the side seams before the fly is even started so you end up having to cart twice as much cloth to-and-fro between the work-table and sewing machine. In most other methods the pockets and fly are complete, or near completion, before the leg seams are even basted.

 

  • Now, about the inlays, or lack thereof. Since Rhinehart's book was published in 1975 I have sneaking feeling that the draft might be a bit Tony Manero in regard to styling: think John Travolta on the disco floor in tight white trousers. Better still, don't. :shock:
  • It seems to me that there is not nearly enough ease in the thighs. Either that or I seriously had my drafting square upside down. I knocked up a muslin of this draft some months ago and thought they were a bit tight, so I actually added another half inch to the inlays, but when I come to stitch the inseams tomorrow I fear they'll still be like Tom Ford trousers.

 

I know the Cabrera book is the basic text recommended here, but I just wanted to mention these things in case anyone else was considering following Rhinehart's book. I'll post some pictures of my attempt when I'm done.


Edited by Henry Hall, 31 August 2013 - 03:38 AM.

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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#2 greger

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 09:28 AM

All of these books show different methods with different thoughts. If you look at the 1949 MTOC you will see front pocket bags not much different, except these are to be hand sewn in. As far as inlays go she does show an inlay along the inseam. As far as fitting go posture, seat size, leg size waist shape and the list goes on all change the pattern no matter which one you use, Even the dart above the pocket needs to be according to the shape of the person, and some need two while somebody else needs a trace dart (none). If you were to look at Poulins book you would see some sort of the same some ideas different and he has a little bit about fitting. I have found with most books it can be easy to misunderstand some of the directions. There are all kinds of waistbands and sometimes I like her method and why be stuck with that one and not do some of the others and make up your own ideas? Knowledge is worth something, some of what she wrote come from tailors who made their living by it. It is like cutting canvases for a coat there are many methods. It isn't one method is the best it is what produces what you want and your ability to produce it. It is why painters look at other painters brush strokes- to see how somebody else did it.



#3 Henry Hall

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 12:21 PM

You're right of course.There are all sorts of methods. My aim was to just point out some of the difficulties I encountered going through her method. I certainly don't dismiss her methods because her book was published for the popular sewing market at a time when getting knowledge about pro tailoring was almost impossible for the layman.

For people with just a trouser draft in their hands - even Mansie's maybe - and not much else in the way of guidance on how to cut out the fittings and other pieces, I think her trousers walkthrough (pun?) is as good a guide as any.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#4 tailleuse

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 03:05 AM

 

 

  • Firstly, she only allows for inlays on the inseams and seat of the back part, rather than both the in- and side-seams inlays recommended in the MTOC chapter on Inlays

 

 

 

 

What does "MTOC" stand for?


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#5 Henry Hall

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 04:52 AM

 

 

What does "MTOC" stand for?

Modern Tailor, Outfitter and Clothier.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#6 Henry Hall

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:10 AM

Oh well, I finished stitching the inseams, only the finishing needs to be done, but I already know these are a failure. It's always annoying, but I'll just finish up and crack on with another pair. These are not even as good as a previous pair I cut up after making!

 

What is most bothersome is that I thought I had given enough sweep around the thigh in the draft to accommodate the pocket bulk. It appears that the pattern tapers off too sharply into the thigh (fourth photo) because that's where these trousers are severly uncommodious! Among the other multiple problems are a slightly wonky fly, and likely non-symmetrical pocket openings. The lack of wearing ease pulls the seams, especially the seat seam and the darts. Yet in the side view it looks less tight.

 

I admit that I did not use the best materials for thses because they were just an experiment in making somewhat slimmer, '70s style trousers. The cream thread reflects the camera flash almost as good as a disco ball. 

 

Any pointers would be appreciated. If you're laughing, laugh privately please :blush: One remark I'd make is: in many measuring systems the upper thigh is never measured; just side-seam, leg-seam, waist, seat, knee and bottoms. 

 

rhine-trou-front.jpg

 

rhine-trou-back.jpg

 

rhine-trou-side.jpg

 

front.jpg


Edited by Henry Hall, 06 September 2013 - 08:15 AM.

  • ladhrann likes this

Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#7 greger

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:55 AM

It is an 70s look isn't it. Also it does not address flat seats and full seats by adjusting dart widths and adding more darts when needed.

 

Some of the modern patterns systems have a much shorter front fork, so the rest is added to the back somehow to make up the difference.







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