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The Masculine Mystique (NY Time Article on suits for new clients)


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#1 tailleuse

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 01:44 AM

The Masculine Mystique Custom Suits to Make Transgender and Female Clients Feel Handsome

Fascinating article. 

 

 

"Breakthrough ideas often come from the least expected sources.

 

For Daniel Friedman, the flash came from a woman named Rachel Tutera. Mr. Friedman makes custom men’s suits, mostly for corporate clients in his end of Park Slope, Brooklyn.

Ms. Tutera runs a blog called The Handsome Butch. When she wrote to him last year, seeking a sales job, she had a proposition: Why couldn’t Mr. Friedman, with his expertise in men’s suits, make them for women like her — not women’s suits, but the same gear he was making for guys, with the same masculine profile, but fitted to women’s bodies? It was a question he had never considered."

 

 

 

 

 


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#2 tailleuse

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:04 AM

No response?  I was curious as to your reaction.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#3 posaune

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:34 AM

well tailleuse,

I do not see what is so interessting. There are no difficulties to do this. If you want to advertise about having this kind of garment, it is more about our times (you can do it nowadays!) than about the cutting of such a suit for a lady.

lg

posaune



#4 tailleuse

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 06:28 AM


well tailleuse,

I do not see what is so interessting. There are no difficulties to do this. If you want to advertise about having this kind of garment, it is more about our times (you can do it nowadays!) than about the cutting of such a suit for a lady.

lg

posaune

 

 

"Advertising"?  I'm not advertising anything.  I was merely pointing out an article in a major world newspaper with a wealthy and cultured readership describing a trend that might be of interest to the professional members of this forum.  I didn't think the article would fit in Les Merveilleuses, which is about traditional women's clothing..

 

Tailoring is a skill for which there is increasingly less need. These are potential clients who apparently have different fit needs than do  men, and they are not wearing traditional "women's suits".  I get that some members might be uncomfortable with this, but the world's changing.

 

As a gender normative woman, I have no desire to look this masculine.  But I respect the desire for a comfortable suit that project authority and think that women's clothing should be designed to be more comfortable and utilitarian, as well as attractive.


Edited by tailleuse, 05 December 2013 - 06:32 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#5 Terri

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:41 AM

I think posaune meant the company or tailor advertising not you personally! :)
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#6 posaune

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 10:41 PM

Thanks Terrie for stepping in. No, tailleuse, I did not mean you. Sorry, about my english.

I meant: All what it is new about this is that nowaday you can speak open about it and advertise it.

In my youth this was not even thinkable.

But the tailoring was done, be it suits for ladies or dresses for men.

 

posaune


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#7 tailleuse

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:22 AM

I think posaune meant the company or tailor advertising not you personally! :)

 

Oh, THANK YOU.  :)


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#8 tailleuse

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 11:27 AM

Thanks Terrie for stepping in. No, tailleuse, I did not mean you. Sorry, about my english.

I meant: All what it is new about this is that nowaday you can speak open about it and advertise it.

In my youth this was not even thinkable.

But the tailoring was done, be it suits for ladies or dresses for men.

 

posaune

 

 

Sorry, Posaune.  I misunderstood and thought you were offended by the topic. You're right, the Times article is definitely functioning as an ad for these companies and who even knows if they're the best out there?  As I said, as an ordinary straight woman I personally would never want to look as masculine as the folks featured in the article, but I do envy the ease it must take to dress once they've put together a suit wardrobe.

 

The client is a bit different, but women have been ordering men's suits for a long time. There was Marlene Dietrich, and long before that, George Sand.  I'm thinking of the more prominent examples.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#9 hutch48

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:37 PM

I confess I have never seen a problem with ladies wearing guys clothing, for what its worth they generally look better than the guys do which may not be all that hard as guys generally look a bit on the scruffy side at best. Somewhere in the distant past I remember one particular girlfriend who was of similar size who would get up on occasions and wear most of my clothing except the shoes. It usually meant that I could sleep in.

 

Some ladies look good in "feminine" clothing while others hate them and prefer a more masculine look, seems to be normal variation between different people.



#10 greger

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:05 PM

Women's clothing should be, in my opinion, women's clothing in appearance, even if it copies men's clothing. Same with men's clothing (guys don't belong in a dress).

 

Something about marriage- What is it? Can men marry men and women marry women? Marriage has been around long before governments, and people figured out what it is, so governments don't determine what marriage is. If marriage was possible between men & men and women & women then it would have been part of all peoples for thousands of years. This same sex marriage that people want today is like they are high on drugs and don't want what reality is. Don't mean to be rude here, but the real truth is different than the pretend. Real answers need to be asked and truth for answers instead of I want something, therefore it is. Today nobody wants the truth and don't like those who ask.


Edited by greger, 25 December 2013 - 02:10 PM.


#11 sewbot

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

Women's clothing should be, in my opinion, women's clothing in appearance, even if it copies men's clothing. Same with men's clothing (guys don't belong in a dress).

 

Something about marriage- What is it? Can men marry men and women marry women? Marriage has been around long before governments, and people figured out what it is, so governments don't determine what marriage is. If marriage was possible between men & men and women & women then it would have been part of all peoples for thousands of years. This same sex marriage that people want today is like they are high on drugs and don't want what reality is. Don't mean to be rude here, but the real truth is different than the pretend. Real answers need to be asked and truth for answers instead of I want something, therefore it is. Today nobody wants the truth and don't like those who ask.

 

Wow!!! I thought this was a forum to share and learn tailoring techniques and information. Had I known it was a platform for bigotry I would have spent my time elsewhere. Same sex marriage is not a drug fantasy, it is reality, and I have just as much a right to marry who I love as anyone else on this forum and this world does.

Lucky for me the state that I live in feels the same as I do, but since your state also made same sex marriage legal, maybe my husband and I will move to Washington and we will be neighbors.


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#12 Alievens

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:27 AM

I'm not sure how this relates to this topic? Nobody mentioned same-sex marriage. Lets keep our ethical opinions for ourselves and elevate our frustrations on dedicated forums.
This forum is indeed about tailoring.
This thread is about cutting and making up masculine garments for female clients.
I don't see how it's relevant...
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#13 tailleuse

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:45 AM

When I posted the link my intention was to be a little provocative  :)  , but I genuinely thought it was interesting that some women are seeking more or less traditional menswear tailoring.  Who'd have thought this would be a new source of clients?  Sure, they could be educated as to what quality represents, but you can't blame them for going to tailors and companies who make them feel welcome.

 

BTW, one of my siblings got married to someone of the same sex this year.  It was a beautiful wedding and a real testament to family values.


Edited by tailleuse, 28 December 2013 - 04:45 AM.

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Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#14 greger

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 12:00 PM

Sewbot, an opinion is not bigotry and the subject is bigger than a few thoughts from who knows how many sides. Beside, Tchaikovsky was one of the best music writers ever, and I read he had wild long nights. When I wrote that I was thinking I was writing in the general chat.

 

White Tie is considered for males, but some have made fabulous White Tie for females for entertainment. No matter what a person makes, if they have a good eye, it should look good. The pictures in the article were terrible because the fit wasn't good for the body or character. If you fit both of these it doesn't matter what garment you make for what person- it will be good. If the article had pictures of both fitting criteria's it would have had to been written different. Because they had poor pictures how can they make a better point? When you show good or much better people want it. I've seen men wearing tailored clothes who would have looked better in store bought because the tailor didn't know how to make for that person. It's the same thing for any clothes on any person. I didn't read the whole article, sometimes the pictures speak more than the words. In the future there will be a whole new line of clothes to address the needs of the new line. So far I don't think people know what to think about it, including the designers.


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#15 ladhrann

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 09:21 AM

When I posted the link my intention was to be a little provocative  :)  , but I genuinely thought it was interesting that some women are seeking more or less traditional menswear tailoring.  Who'd have thought this would be a new source of clients?  Sure, they could be educated as to what quality represents, but you can't blame them for going to tailors and companies who make them feel welcome.

 

Fair does, and its interesting that Posaune mentions how even in the past when it couldn't be talked about, suits were made for women and dresses for men.  One of the terrible problems for me as a male dresser is that sadly many staple articles of the past have been entirely co-opted by the opposite sex so that capes, baker boy hats and so on could not be worn easily by a man now.  That said my inner peacock would love to have an acid-toned hussar's jacket such as on the cover of Sgt. Peppers', who now could make one I wonder?

 

 

Sewbot, an opinion is not bigotry and the subject is bigger than a few thoughts from who knows how many sides. Beside, Tchaikovsky was one of the best music writers ever, and I read he had wild long nights. When I wrote that I was thinking I was writing in the general chat.

 

White Tie is considered for males, but some have made fabulous White Tie for females for entertainment. No matter what a person makes, if they have a good eye, it should look good. The pictures in the article were terrible because the fit wasn't good for the body or character. If you fit both of these it doesn't matter what garment you make for what person- it will be good. If the article had pictures of both fitting criteria's it would have had to been written different. Because they had poor pictures how can they make a better point? When you show good or much better people want it. I've seen men wearing tailored clothes who would have looked better in store bought because the tailor didn't know how to make for that person. It's the same thing for any clothes on any person. I didn't read the whole article, sometimes the pictures speak more than the words. In the future there will be a whole new line of clothes to address the needs of the new line. So far I don't think people know what to think about it, including the designers.

 

I'm with greger on this, we all come from different backgrounds and belief systems and to paraphrase some old dead white guy, I may not like what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.  Lets keep the really intemperate fallings outs for serious matters like shoulder slopes, fitting problems and beginner coat-making topics :thumbsup:


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