Jump to content


Photo

armscye seam on high end custom dress shirt


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 borbor

borbor

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:08 AM

Just a general question to tailors on here.  I saw on a dress shirt that my friend got in italy where the seam on the side is offset / misaligned to the seam of the armscye.  Is there a functional purpose to this in terms of comfort / fit?  

 

When I asked him about it after I spotted it, he didnt even know about it until then.  So obviously he coulnd't be of help :)

 

Thanks



#2 napoli

napoli

    Pro

  • Professional
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:30 AM

hi, that is a neapoletan feature, 

 

As is not an industrial sewn shirt where the sleeves and body sides are sewn at same time and continue, they can dealign to better fit, as human posture is not as on a toy, totally straight, but the arms are a bit forward, hence that feature.


  • Der Zuschneider likes this

#3 Terri

Terri

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:33 PM

Its a difference in the pattern, not necessarily in the fit. The sleeve seam could be moved to match with the underarm if desired, whether the sleeve is sewn in flat or set in as a unit after the side seams are sewn.

It may be more typical with a closer fitting design in the body and a sleeve with a higher depth of crown, because it is easier to use a industrial methods with a flatter sleeve.....
  • Schneiderfrei likes this

#4 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:15 AM

I concur with Terri's point. In custom clothing, you can rotate the sleeve in the scye as a workaround to compensate for a draft that is slightly "off".

 

In RTW, we would revise the pattern so the underarm seam would be sewn "in one". Not only is it easier, it's also a hallmark of concienscious engineering. Said another way: what you saw is not a hallmark of quality.

 

It is true that I tend limit the crown height because the flatter sleeve cap sews more easily in RTW production. But, it really depends on the market and pricepoint. Most better-grade apparel (viz. Nordstrom, etc.) have sleeve caps range between 5" and 6" - some a little higher or lower; but, the majority fall within this range.

 

For personal projects, I tend to like to standardize myself to a 5 1/2" sleeve cap for dress and sportshirts. I find this handles easiest under the needle and I'm happy with fit and style trade-offs.

 

All that said... I have released sleeve caps as high as 7" into production for several designer-grade labels. This is not a whim, though. The equipment and skill of the operators need to be assessed before doing this.


Edited by jcsprowls, 25 July 2014 - 03:26 AM.

  • ladhrann and Schneiderfrei like this
___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#5 borbor

borbor

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 July 2014 - 03:47 AM

thank you all for your explanation



#6 napoli

napoli

    Pro

  • Professional
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 539 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:47 AM

I concur with Terri's point. In custom clothing, you can rotate the sleeve in the scye as a workaround to compensate for a draft that is slightly "off".

 

In RTW, we would revise the pattern so the underarm seam would be sewn "in one". Not only is it easier, it's also a hallmark of concienscious engineering. Said another way: what you saw is not a hallmark of quality.

 

It is true that I tend limit the crown height because the flatter sleeve cap sews more easily in RTW production. But, it really depends on the market and pricepoint. Most better-grade apparel (viz. Nordstrom, etc.) have sleeve caps range between 5" and 6" - some a little higher or lower; but, the majority fall within this range.

 

For personal projects, I tend to like to standardize myself to a 5 1/2" sleeve cap for dress and sportshirts. I find this handles easiest under the needle and I'm happy with fit and style trade-offs.

 

All that said... I have released sleeve caps as high as 7" into production for several designer-grade labels. This is not a whim, though. The equipment and skill of the operators need to be assessed before doing this.

 

 

In RTW, we would revise the pattern so the underarm seam would be sewn "in one". Not only is it easier, it's also a hallmark of concienscious engineering. Said another way: what you saw is not a hallmark of quality.

 

 

But all neapolitan shirts of close to 1000 dollars as Kiton have that feature. Why is that? just asking.



#7 gramountoto

gramountoto

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 247 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Reunion Island

Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:43 AM


 

But all neapolitan shirts of close to 1000 dollars as Kiton have that feature. Why is that? just asking.

 

Such feature requires to first sew the sleeve seam and the side seam and then attach sleeve to body. This is more time consuming and, from what I understand, especially in an industrial environnement.

 

Maybe Kiton does this just to show some additional work on his shirts.

 

This offset of the two seams is often described on blogs as a hallmark of high end shirts. The "rational" explanation that often comes with that is "to reduce bulk where armscye, side- and sleeve-seams meet". I think it's more a marketing stuff.

 

I always attach my sleeves this way. But I confess it's pure snobism. And I have time for that.



#8 jcsprowls

jcsprowls

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,134 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Roanoke, Virginia

Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:13 PM

If you didn't take the time to engineer/optimize the sewing operations, did you really give the customer (or, product) your best effort?

 

To me, that's the equivalent of saying "don't worry sir... I'm sure it will ride up with wear."


___________

Dir, Product Development

web: http://www.studio9apparel.com
portfolio: http://www.behance.net/studio9apparel

#9 Terri

Terri

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:32 PM

If the kiton shirts have a sleeve with a very high sleeve cap, that may be why they do a set in sleeve. If the sleeve cap isn't high, then it really isn't needed and is marketing.
Offsetting to reduce bulk makes sense, but how bulky is their shirting that it would require that treatment?

#10 gramountoto

gramountoto

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 247 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Reunion Island

Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:59 AM

If the kiton shirts have a sleeve with a very high sleeve cap, that may be why they do a set in sleeve.

 

Terri, could you please explain why ?



#11 Terri

Terri

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Ontario Canada

Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:22 AM

The flatter sleeve cap and less fitted body were ideal for setting sleeves in flat, then sewing the side seam and sleeve seam all in one.

The higher sleeve cap and more fitted body make setting the sleeve flat irritating at best, and prone to sewer error at worst.

You have a relatively less shaped armhole and a very shaped sleeve which will not lay flat as it is being sewn, in fact it will want to curve up and over as you progress along the seam, so you have to push it out of the way. Plus the seam allowance of the sleeve is fuller and has to be carefully arranged so that it isn't caught when seaming.
Further, when the sleeve cap increases, the angle that the sleeve sits in the armoles decreases and the angle under the arm becomes more acute and to sew the underarm and side body in one go requires a pivot rather than a smooth transition.

(the higher sleeve cap reduces the underarm length, thereby reducing the mobility inherent in traditional shirts. Instead of being able to raise your arms parallel to the floor without pulling the side body up, now the side of the garment will pull up when the arms are lifted)

It makes more sense once the sleeve cap gets to be quite high to eliminate some sewing issues and set them like a ladies bodice or a jacket sleeve.
  • gramountoto likes this

#12 craigdman

craigdman

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 29 September 2014 - 02:26 PM

It should be more comfortable that way and should make ironing easier.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users