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drafting umsie apprentice question supplies

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#1 DesertElephant

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:58 AM

So, it has been recommended by Sator himself, as well as some of the other Masters, that one draft for whomever they are making their garments rather than using a pre-made, commercial pattern when starting out.  To that end, I have my Tailor's square (Imperial Measures), my varyform and my hip curve (My Wife actually bought me the Fairgate Designer's Carry-all for my 35th Birthday last Month).  As I am sure I'll be going through a lot of the stuff, I wanted to get some inexpensive Kraft Paper upon which to draft initially.

 

My question is this:  How wide should I get the roll?  Also, where on the paper is a good place to start, as I know from observing patternmaking discussions here, as well as analyses, that parts often extend beyond the initial starting point of the draft.  Simple questions, but I thought someone might be able to offer a quick answer.

 

Thanks in advance for the time and attention taken out to respond.

 

 


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#2 Henry Hall

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 03:08 AM

On the draft diagrams the starting point is indicated. Look at all the points and squarings that issue from that point and make enough room on your paper to accommodate them.

 

If it is trousers you are drafting (depending on the draft) it will be either the top centre or the top edge (right or left) closest to you on the paper; maybe 10-20cm (4-8 inches) from the edge.

 

I'll point you to this trousing drafting walkthrough on Terri's (a professional member here) blog. It guides you through the drafting process.

 

Mansie also madethis youtube video for his draft:

 


Edited by Henry Hall, 10 September 2014 - 03:11 AM.

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#3 jcsprowls

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 03:28 AM

I use 48" marker paper for drafts and I consider this a universal size. Reason being for trousers, I can cut a 24"-30" length and then "railroad" it so the 48" side provides the length needed for a trouser (generally 42-46" for outseam + cuff + allowances).

 

40# kraft paper generally costs the same as the marker paper. Marker paper is a little softer so darts and pleats can be closed prior to cutting to give accurate angles.

 

I don't use kraft or marker paper for patterns, though. I use 150# oaktag to convert drafts into first patterns and then to commit final patterns.


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#4 Terri

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 03:32 AM

I use 80 lb 36" wide kraft paper bought by the roll. I am sure there is a source for smaller amounts, just not sure where.(not very helpful, am I)
Yes, I walked through a trouser draft that was posted here on this site. It was just an exercise, not a draft that I use.
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#5 DesertElephant

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 04:39 AM

Thanks, Henry, JC and Terri.

 

I will choose either 36" or 48"  I like JC's reasoning.  It seems economical in that less Length would be swallowed up in total.

 

This is all very new to me, and I'm trying to be as economical as possible, so I wanted to try and waste as little in drafting as was necessary.  I also didn't want to find I had chosen too narrow a roll of Paper.


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Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, but not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy; for the apparel oft proclaims the man.

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#6 DesertElephant

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 07:03 AM

Funnily enough, if I'd just kept reading through the older posts in this Forum for we Basic Apprentices, I'd have see a wealth of preferences as I have today.  But JC's suggestions, as well as Terri's, were helpful as well.  

 

OT: Maybe I'm not reading the timestamps well enough, but this seems as if it used to be a very vibrant, participatory community.  Though I see posts daily, it doesn't seem to have the same interaction level.  Maybe I'm imagining it.  Either way, I love it here and am staying for as long as the admins will allow and Sator keeps it running.

 

Or until JC starts turning mean, which I don't think he's capable of, because... and I mean this... I have NEVER in the backlogs or since I've been here... seen you be anything but kind and helpful.  Like another JC.


Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, but not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy; for the apparel oft proclaims the man.

-Polonius, Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 3


#7 jcsprowls

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:19 AM

I come across much nicer in writing because I can walk away and re-engage after I've cooled off. But, I have crotchety days, too.

 

I am easily annoyed when well-intentioned myth is recited as dogma or when several of us agree on a recommendation only to be countermanded by someone unknown in the community. I try to bite my tongue. But, my SO can vouch for tirades and rants behind-the-scenes.

 

Terry's suggestion to use 80# kraft is reasonable. I used to use that for single-use patterns. But, there is a tradeoff. 80# kraft is more difficult to true darts and pleats. The thickness throws off the accuracy of the creases.


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#8 Terri

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:30 AM

I don't crease my paper :twitch: at least not on purpose!

 

At work my paper is on a dispenser attached to my table, so even though the table is 4 feet wide, a three foot wide paper works best. I have four foot wide paper for covering the cork surface of my table, or for making big patterns. Even then I end up taping them together.

 

Anyway, I generally don't use the patterns more than once or twice anyway, no storage for oaktag versions. After I keep them a year or two or ten (just in case) I toss most of them. 

Whenever I get old patterns out and try to make sense of what I did five or ten years ago, I get a headache. I also figure that I have learned new things and can do it better now than I did it before. That's my story. Easier to draft from scratch for me.


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#9 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:54 AM

I like to hear what you say no matter JC. Do you use the oaktag #150 because you can trace around it?


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#10 jcsprowls

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 10:12 AM

@Terri

 

I concur. Context matters. We work differently because of our applications.

 

When I worked manually, I closed darts and pleats to cut out the draft so I could transfer the angles of the edges to the first pattern. I needed softer paper to do this.

 

Since 2006 (?), I do all my pattern work in CAD. I plot, cut, sew, fit, style and then commit the changes back to the CAD pattern before grading it out. If the customer needs hardcopy, I plot the final patterns, paste them to oaktag and cut them out.

 

That said: I only draft from scratch if I'm working in a new (to me) market or style. I always try to base subsequent styles in a client's line on fitted/proven styles. Not only does this provide fit and size continuity for the brand, it happens I get paid by the pattern piece. I need to transfer all the engineering I figured out previously over to the new style.

 

I get headaches looking at ancient styles, too. It's sometimes shocking how much I've learned/progressed or changed my opinions. My context requires that be very careful at the onset. I've learned the hard way that I could have headaches several years in the future if I am not conscientious, today. It's a different perspective.

 

 

I like to hear what you say no matter JC. Do you use the oaktag #150 because you can trace around it?

 

Several reasons, actually. When I operated a manual pattern room, I needed the sturdy paper to lay flat and provide a firm edge for accurate marking and cutting. Hard paper withstands the rigor of multiple uses. And, as a flat patternmaker, hard paper is much easier to copy, manipulate darts, open fullness and maintain a high degree of precision.


Edited by jcsprowls, 10 September 2014 - 10:18 AM.

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#11 tailleuse

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:26 PM

Midtown Paper is one source for pattern making papers and other tools. Someone I know was doing a Pattern Making certificate at FIT and she was using paper that was included as part of the fee.  The school bought it from Midtown.


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#12 tailleuse

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:30 PM

What brand of paper scissors or shears do you use for cutting oaktag?  I've tried a couple pairs of pattern shears, but they were heavy and a bit hard to handle.  Maybe they all are.


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#13 tailleuse

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:42 PM

 

I am easily annoyed when well-intentioned myth is recited as dogma or when several of us agree on a recommendation only to be countermanded by someone unknown in the community.

 

Sometimes it's hard to know what's belongs in the realm of legend.  In addition, I've never had a sewing or tailoring teacher who taught the same way; at times, their methods were radically different.  With one or two exceptions, the teachers I've had were very dogmatic, woe betide s/he who asked for an explanation of why one method was better than another.  Sometimes there were time constraints, or it would have been confusing to explain Method B right after laying out Method A.


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#14 Terri

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 09:28 PM

When I worked manually, I closed darts and pleats to cut out the draft so I could transfer the angles of the edges to the first pattern. I needed softer paper to do this.


yes, all joking aside , I certainly can see the point of this and actually have done so myself on many occasions. Picture, if you will tyring to true a pattern with 20 or more darts, pinning them closed on the table, and trying to redraw the seam line! I was drawing inside a paper shell!

The thing I have taken to doing to true darts for instance is to make a cut on the pattern elsewhere to the dart point so I can overlap and true the dart, then I just tape the cut back together. Not a problem with a one off use.
(I should invest in a certain tape company!)
In complex pleating, one could always cut a portion of the pattern in muslin, sew up the darts or pleats and mark nicer lines on the muslin, then transfer the new lines to paper.
It comes down to using a variety of methods depending on what you need now or in the future.
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#15 DesertElephant

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 01:42 AM

tailleuse,

 

Thanks for the link!  I've bookmarked it for future reference.  I noted that they had Oak Tag, Kraft and plotter paper which, in a Very Old post, another tailor whose stuff I've read and respect stated that he used.  Much Appreciated.


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Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, but not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy; for the apparel oft proclaims the man.

-Polonius, Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 3


#16 tailleuse

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:26 AM

tailleuse,

 

Thanks for the link!  I've bookmarked it for future reference.  I noted that they had Oak Tag, Kraft and plotter paper which, in a Very Old post, another tailor whose stuff I've read and respect stated that he used.  Much Appreciated.

 

You're very welcome. :) 

 

Plotter paper is used to print out patterns with a special printer callled a plotting machine. I'd be surprised if a bespoke tailor had one. They don't typically digitize patterns or do CAD work.  I once saw a video of a RTW sample room in which a revised pattern was being printed off. 


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#17 DesertElephant

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:29 AM

tailleuse,

 

Actually, he stated he was using it to make his hand drafted patterns.  I used to do IT desktop support for Engineers and Facilities folks, so I have, unfortunately, a lot of experience with plotters.  At least, I used to. 


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Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, but not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy; for the apparel oft proclaims the man.

-Polonius, Hamlet, Act 1, Scene 3


#18 tailleuse

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 04:36 AM

tailleuse,

 

Actually, he stated he was using it to make his hand drafted patterns.  I used to do IT desktop support for Engineers and Facilities folks, so I have, unfortunately, a lot of experience with plotters.  At least, I used to. 

 

Well, there's a lot I don't know. :)


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)






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