Jump to content


Photo

Internet Debate re Tailoring Titles Discussed in Jeffery Diduch's Blog

bespoke tailoring tailoring functions RTW manufacturing bespoke patternmaking RTW patternmaking bespoke tailoring v. RTW bespoke tailoring job titles RTW design job titles forum member blog epithets

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#19 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:39 PM

I don't think many care what the "usual suspects" say, they don't waste their time getting into dog fights with them.

This chef I worked for was out with the customers, they didn't know, he heard their praise and dislikes. He wanted to know what they wanted to eat and how to make it. He wasn't out there telling them how wrong they because he was the expert. He wanted his customers to come back, not push them away.

The drape lovers have gone to tailors who know nothing about drape and the tailor has to figure it out if he wants that customer. Some of the rules you like simple don't work for drape. If you don't understand the thinking then you can't make it. We're not talking about only construction here, but also art. It is all about art. The construction only enables the art. It is like a house builder asked to build a covered bridge, they look sorta the same but the construction is very different. Like "overstuffed" how many good ways of doing it? Soft? Stiff? There is something warming about them in winter, whereas for summer the opposite of overstuffed.
  • tailleuse likes this

#20 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:46 PM

I don't think many care what the "usual suspects" say, they don't waste their time getting into dog fights with them.

 

 

 The fact is that people do believe what is written on SF and the various blogs regarding style and the benefits of "soft tailoring"!

 

I've had the opportunity to literally feel the difference between a "soft tailored" jacket and several of those "stiff" coats made by a SR tailoring firm, and there was nothing soft in the first and no stiffness in the latter.

 

It all boils down to a marketing hype and the "usual suspects" help keeping it alive.

 

BTW, men look silly in skinny trousers.

 


  • tailleuse likes this

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#21 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 03 December 2014 - 03:05 AM

 

BTW, men look silly in skinny trousers.

 

 

Women look dumb in them too, but that video was funny.

 

Funny to think that men once did wear breaches and tight stockings and leggings.


Edited by tailleuse, 03 December 2014 - 03:10 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#22 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 03 December 2014 - 03:09 AM

This chef I worked for was out with the customers, they didn't know, he heard their praise and dislikes. He wanted to know what they wanted to eat and how to make it. He wasn't out there telling them how wrong they because he was the expert. He wanted his customers to come back, not push them away.

 

 

I knew someone who a long time ago worked for David Bouley, a famous American chef.  He used to look at the plates as they were returned to the kitchen to see what people ate.  He cared, but I'm sure he wouldn't have offered food that didn't meet his standards in terms of sophistication and interest.  As you said, it's about art.


Edited by tailleuse, 03 December 2014 - 03:11 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#23 cperry

cperry

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Minnesota USA
  • Interests:Fine sewing for children, English smocking, tailoring for women and men

Posted 03 December 2014 - 03:40 AM

 

Women look dumb in them too, but that video was funny.

 

Funny to think that men once did wear breaches and tight stockings and leggings.

Even worse, is wearing them when it's 20 degrees F and below with a sharply cold wind chill.


Edited by cperry, 03 December 2014 - 03:40 AM.

  • tailleuse likes this

#24 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 03 December 2014 - 06:24 AM

The chef would never lower his standards, but the food can be varied. With drape alone how many thousands of variations came around the bend? How well they were executed is a whole nother matter. If customers had the answers wouldn't they for $200 and spare time make their own, and better? Some of these guys are paying thousands for one coat. And, how many tailors help their competitors; more like, let them misup so the customers comes to you.

Edited by greger, 03 December 2014 - 06:26 AM.

  • tailleuse and cperry like this

#25 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 03 December 2014 - 07:41 AM

SG, if there be a God who made all the personalities and you stomp on some of these then are you not stomping on God? Who among humans can understand all personality types. Even the people who study this subject know very little and misup. Why people want clothes a certain way how many times will you understand, an astute business man does not want his personality in the way. Money coming in is important for the business. My grandfather could look at somebody's clothes and tell you why. There are other tailors who can do this to. Find some and learn from them.

What is happening on SF has been happening for thousands of years. Naturally with a new method to communicate it is on the Internet. Misinformation by customers has always been. Despoe watches and rarely teaches.

Hostek told me about making the wrong coats and how he changed them into what the customer wanted. Several coats can have the same name, or the customer changed his mind, or thinks he looks terrible in it. Don't blame the customer. It becomes an adventure sometimes for both until customer is satisfied. How go about this can be time consuming. Some customers don't like their time wasted and will find another tailor. Time wasted means you lost money. Plus adds discomfort by putting the garment on and off... I If you follow preconceived plans to much isn't that what m2m is? It doesn't matter if it is perfect the customer has to be involved with the decision making.

If you listen to back room tailors to much are you missing what tailoring is about?
  • cperry likes this

#26 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 03 December 2014 - 08:43 AM

I like diversity and different personalities. While some people live in the here and now, others are stuck in a time that they hardly experienced themselves and that gets glorified in their memory... Even though I'm not particularly fond of the latter (and I'm for sure not the only one) I'm putting up with their often outdated views, poor spelling and grammar.

 

Would you like a customer to tell you what to do? How to prepare a meal (to stay in the chef analogy) or how to make the suit? I think not. They can express their wishes, but should be open to the advice of the person making that particular item. If a customer will insist against the advice of the tailor it's better to part straight away. Asking a craftsperson to make something he/ she is not familar with might easily end in a disaster for both sides with the heavier impact on the craftsperson.

 

A lot of the Neapolitan tailors do their versions (or interpretations) of that typical style, but I wonder how much they are willing or able to stray from it? Same with tailors in other parts of the world. Some Asian tailors make really nice Neapolitan style jackets, others make British, some even a sort of German style.

 

BTW, it's actually the MTM sector where sales staff will sell anything they have in their lists to make an extra buck, regardless if the result will look good on the customer.

Just caring about the sale is actually bad customer service.


  • tailleuse likes this

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#27 Henry Hall

Henry Hall

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:De Lage Landen

Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:26 AM

Having an amateur tell you what to do is the best way to mediocrity in any profession. The best professionals take control of the situation without making their client/customer/patient feel like a fool. This means either educating them gently or politely taking suggestions and using them according to your skills.

 

Doctors have to put up with this a lot. The internet has made everyone an 'expert' and so doctors work with patients rather the older way of just dictating from a position of authority. But don't misunderstand this; it's not that the patient is a professional equal, it's that the doctor has to work a little bit harder to manage patient expectations.

 

I don't think letting the SF chatterers carry on because it makes them 'walk through the door with fistfuls of money'is any sort of positive attitude. Unless, of course, one happens to be merely a money-grubbing twister.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#28 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:38 PM

One needs to know ones limits. On the other hand when does one stop learning? Some customers have been shown by other tailors so it is no longer the customers opinion. Separating fact from fiction is part of the job. Time is money if you don't think it can be made with in reason say so. That leaves him a choice, something you can do, or find another tailor.

About hard soft swell drape, whatever. One guy who has written on the forums had been buying from A&S for decades. Believe he said his father bought there, and other people he knew. So this began decades before the Internet. Sweater feeling and rumpled. For some business deal making he would wear Huntsman. He liked A&S most. You can't argue merits that don't mean anything to him. Why fight it? Since the old guard is gone and he doesn't trust the new he hasn't gotten another from A&S. So what is soft? Smaller haircloth, far less pad stitches, lose pad stitching. Hard would be larger haircloth, more pad stitching, shaping while pad stitching. In wear the difference is noticeable. Is drape like a plastic bag full of water layed out on a table top? And swell like an egg that doesn't change shape?

The guy who owned Tailor & Cutter in the 189xs said that cheaper tailors put in less pad stitching. Consider lapels do you put in a thousand each? How about 50? If you put in 100 that is double 50 but 1/10 a thousand. Add that up in time and you can see why some tailors made for the rich and poor.

#29 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 04 December 2014 - 05:37 PM

"I don't think letting the SF chatterers carry on because it makes them 'walk through the door with fistfuls of money'is any sort of positive attitude. Unless, of course, one happens to be merely a money-grubbing twister."

I'd rather have a thick skin and somethings are their problem. The money I don't want is dirty money. Pimps can have a white wash that how are you going to know? Stealing a young adults life and shoving them into prostitution and then murdered. These young people should be getting married, raising children and later enjoying grandchildren. The people at SF are peanuts. Is it worth your time sitting in judgment? Are there other ways of thinking about these people? If some of these people walked in to your shop would you know? You write because you care. But somethings are not to be cared about. Which means finding worthy causes to care about. Dental & medical is needed many places in this world and these people are helped by caring people. Starvation hasn't gone away.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: bespoke tailoring, tailoring functions, RTW manufacturing, bespoke patternmaking, RTW patternmaking, bespoke tailoring v. RTW, bespoke tailoring job titles, RTW design job titles, forum member blog, epithets

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users