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#1 greger

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 01:29 PM

http://articles.sun-...curves-dressing

This is more in line to what I think of tailoring.
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#2 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 02:35 PM

Article is from 1990, the man was 86, today the tailor would be 100 years old. I guess he hit the coffin already.


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#3 greger

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 04:08 PM

http://books.google.... tailor&f=false

http://books.google....utput=html_text

http://www.nytimes.c...-tailor-89.html

The first two are linked by tapping on the first picture.

The last one is sorta his obituary.
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#4 ChiTownTailor

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:42 PM

This is great! Thanks!

Edited by ChiTownTailor, 23 December 2014 - 07:42 PM.

-There might be a lot of tweed merchants out there making a bodger, but I'm sure not one of them. I'd rather be kicking my heels than making a pork on the mangle. No crushed beetles to be found here!

#5 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:35 AM

Every stitch is done by hand, except the straight seams... and the sky is blue and the circle is round... and there is no tailor under 60... let's womit!  :Doh:  


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#6 greger

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 10:35 AM

Every stitch is done by hand, except the straight seams... 


Lucky you Der Zus. When I bought a sewing machine Mom asked me, "Are you not going to be doing tailoring?" Decades later, after the guild gave the OK for machines grandfather and many others never agreed. He certainly knew both worlds. Those who zip through with a machine dismiss the quality of hand sewn, because they never learned it? You can't appreciate what you don't know. Hasn't the knowledge of hand sewing been greatly reduced because almost nobody does it anymore? So, with the knowledge gone, that was developed through the centuries, who is left to teach it? The accumulated knowledge and skills has a lot more to it than someone just hand sewing. The speed of the machine doesn't rule out quality. Some of those old tailors could hand sew a coat in 21.5 hours, plus pressing. Actually, they all had to, because they needed to earn so much money in the time frame. Those who were faster had more to spend. My grandfather was just barely fast enough, so he decided to become a farmer. As one tailor wrote the feel is different between the two methods. If you have only worn one how do you know you don't like the other more?

Edited by greger, 25 December 2014 - 10:39 AM.

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#7 Schneidergott

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 10:03 PM

Please, don't start this "hand sewing is so much better" thing again. It's nearly 2015 and tailors today use sewing machines. And tailors sitting in front of or beside their sewing machine claiming that they do everything by hand is just plain stupid.

 

If you do everything! by hand you will have to up your prices, since your output will be low.


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#8 greger

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 07:38 AM

Just counter point. Besides, machinery is getting much better. And, should those who cannot afford the higher prices be cut out of bespoke completely? The edge stitching up the front of the coat, there is no law that says it has to be done by hand. With machine it can be done in seconds. So the cost is $5 instead of over $100. It gets tiresome hearing only the rich can have bespoke. I don't like that snobbery. As human beings the rich are not worth anymore than anybody else. Make for what people can pay for. The imagery rules floating around today where only to push the apprentice to be capable of being able to make for the higher class, because that is where the big money is at. The "rules" were never to shut out those with less money.
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#9 Schneidergott

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 09:24 AM

Hand stitch or machine stitch does not decide the quality. There are good machine made and crappy "hand-sewn" garments available.

Sadly, in most cases "bespoke" is for the rich, simply because "normal" people have to actually think about how to spend that little money they have.

So machine made RTW or MTM is what they can afford to buy.

 

For the majority of people there is no need to go full bespoke given the softened dress rules. Why wear a suit and tie, if you can get away with jeans and shirts?

 

The attitude has to be changed, so the ones with less income will save up and go for full bespoke.

Another option would be to educate the public in real life (not just on the internet) about the differences in make, fit and feel, which would be the task of the remaining (and few) full bespoke tailors.


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#10 jukes

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 11:34 PM

How can the public be educated, when the standard of fit and make up, along with today's culture of cheaply made, throw away goods is so poor.
Classic goods are a thing of the past, except for the fortunate few who can afford them.
The difference in quality now is such a wide gulf between top and bottom, with very little in between.
The longer we accept what is being forced upon us, the worse it gets.
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#11 Schneidergott

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 01:35 AM

Well, how about open trade shows in a public place held by full bespoke tailors (and only them, no RTW and/ or MTM fashion brand nonsens)? "Normal" people could have a real life look at what goes into a full bespoke suit so they can evaluate themselves which option is better value for (their) money.

They could even offer a raffle with a full bespoke suit as top price. TV (or media in general) coverage will help as well.

Ask retired tailors and young apprentices to do it, I'm sure they wouldn't mind to help their trade (not only restricted to tailors, of course).


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#12 OJD

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 04:55 AM

one part of the problem is that everything today is too cheap. The whole economy is based on mass consumption of goods that are made by people in countries where wages are lower (and almost always lower living standards). Even the chinese are now starting to outsource textile manufacturing to africa, because of the rising labour costs in china. What will happen when there are no dirt poor countries left?


Edited by OJD, 27 December 2014 - 04:55 AM.

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#13 jukes

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 05:20 AM

one part of the problem is that everything today is too cheap. The whole economy is based on mass consumption of goods that are made by people in countries where wages are lower (and almost always lower living standards). Even the chinese are now starting to outsource textile manufacturing to africa, because of the rising labour costs in china. What will happen when there are no dirt poor countries left?


When that happens, everything caves in, and a third world war will be required so the cycle can begin again.

#14 greger

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 08:16 AM

"What will happen when there are no dirt poor countries left?"

Back to the way it was before. But, poorer counties will be far richer. From that perspective better opportunity for everyone. Some will have more luck and machines will replace more people at work. So, goodbye tailors. Scanners will scan customers, and while walking to pay for the garments in the back room a machines will cut the cloth. When paying the machines will be making. By the time the customer gets to the door a robot will zip out from the back room with the finished garments thanking the customer for buying. Since there are no workers the share holders will be off skiing the alps or surfing the north shore waves in Hawaii. The lesson here is to be a share holder.
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#15 Schneidergott

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 05:48 PM

"What will happen when there are no dirt poor countries left?"

Back to the way it was before. But, poorer counties will be far richer. From that perspective better opportunity for everyone. Some will have more luck and machines will replace more people at work. So, goodbye tailors. Scanners will scan customers, and while walking to pay for the garments in the back room a machines will cut the cloth. When paying the machines will be making. By the time the customer gets to the door a robot will zip out from the back room with the finished garments thanking the customer for buying. Since there are no workers the share holders will be off skiing the alps or surfing the north shore waves in Hawaii. The lesson here is to be a share holder.

 

Part of this is already in place: Scanners scanning the customers and computers cutting the cloth without a physical pattern. Not to mention a lot of automated processes in the factories.

 

All that doesn't matter if the pattern system used is not up to the task or the production is done in such a rush that the final result lacks the finesse of what was initially intended.

 

Constantly improving every stage of production (in RTW, MTM and full bespoke) is the key to success. Along with appropriate marketing, of course.


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#16 Learner

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:21 PM

 

Part of this is already in place: Scanners scanning the customers and computers cutting the cloth without a physical pattern. Not to mention a lot of automated processes in the factories.

 

All that doesn't matter if the pattern system used is not up to the task or the production is done in such a rush that the final result lacks the finesse of what was initially intended.

 

Constantly improving every stage of production (in RTW, MTM and full bespoke) is the key to success. Along with appropriate marketing, of course.

This is absolutely true.  From what I've seen of the systems that incorporate body-scanners, having scanned the topology of the entire body, the software then calculates a few measurements which could just as easily have been taken by a competent MTM vendor with a tape measure:

 

INTAILOTR01.jpg

 

This strikes me as a mind-bogglingly wrong-headed use of this technology.



#17 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 31 December 2014 - 07:46 AM

Cracking a nut with a sledgehammer!


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#18 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 01 January 2015 - 06:28 AM

I agree that so much of what is currently being utilized to digitize and computer draft patterns for the individual is in fact a huge waist of time. A person with good drafting skills can out perform a machine and produce a better product at a cheaper price still today. I find it silly that people at home currently want to purchase expensive software for computer drafting of patterns when most likely they haven't mastered doing so the old-fashioned way - by hand.  If you can't do so by hand - you won't be able to fully alter a pattern on a machine at this point either. But I'm guessing that some years down the road, this may no longer be true.

 

Currently CAD for RTW makes sense. You have a basic pattern and then several deviations can be quickly drawn to enable a factory to produce at a faster and even more precise pace. But quite frankly this has little to do with tailoring at this point. Human involvement and skill is still needed to produce the garments. 

 

I believe that eventually there will be programs that can scan and evaluate not only a standing body, but also a body in motion - over time. The program will then be able to apply needed changes to a design to better fit a particular individual and will quite possibly be a better pattern than could be produced by most master tailors. Afterall, most everyone on this forum is a student of someone's prior work - be it Rundschau or Hostek or whoever. The concepts taught by any method can be programmed into a machine. Currently most everyone accepts that there can be deviation from one tailor to the next just in taking measurements of the human body as none of us comes "pre-diagrammed" with x's or lines delineating precisely where our shoulders or waistlines are. I can see that it would be possible for a machine to scan these areas quite precisely by watching a body move through a predetermined set of movements. But even once a pattern is created, the process of taking the design to fabric will still require the skills of a genuine craftsman to produce the ultimate fit. I don't see machines outperforming men at this any time soon. 

 

As a woman with a difficult shape, I am keeping a close eye on the Lekala company out of Russia. They have an extensive pattern library and are offering patterns for purchase with some basic alterations already in place for the individual. They are also practically giving them away - at approximately $2 each. Because women want and to some extent need so much variety in their clothing, developing this concept makes sense.  I know that I would personally pay $15 - $20 currently (possibly more) if they were able to provide a bit more in the way of pattern alterations upfront that would save me time.  I have no desire to design my own clothing, it takes more than enough time to do the construction. The more people that spend their time attempting to create clothing programs - the faster we will reach the ability to produce individualized patterns. When this happens, I can easily see an opportunity for a new industry of producing individualized RTW - so to speak. There is a bit of this going on already - but its in its infancy - primarily due to the limitations on current CAD drafting.

 

But no matter how the pattern is achieved - we are light years away (if ever) from a machine being able to properly tailor a garment.  The current problem at hand is convincing those that can afford to purchase bespoke that they should be doing so - instead of schlepping around in what was on the rack the day they went shopping.  


Edited by SPOOKIETOO, 01 January 2015 - 06:30 AM.

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