Jump to content


Photo

March 2, 2015 - Fashion is Finally Declared Dead


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 SPOOKIETOO

SPOOKIETOO

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:52 AM

Found this posted on another site and thought it may give some here a glimmer of hope:

 

 

http://www.dezeen.co...shion-obsolete/

 

 

I know it has confirmed what I've known for some time.

 


  • hutch48 and Lande like this

#2 cperry

cperry

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Minnesota USA
  • Interests:Fine sewing for children, English smocking, tailoring for women and men

Posted 04 March 2015 - 01:34 AM

That is interesting. Wouldn't it be interesting to read the actual manifesto, as a few commenters noted? I'd agree the cost cutting trend is a detriment to the industry. I think a lot of people notice that their clothing is not lasting as long as it did even 15 years ago, but unless you sew and you figure out what and where the better lasting cloth is, what can you do? The quality has come to the point that I can't put it on my family members.

Your quote from another thread, "If fashion would quiet down a little, women could have some really beautiful clothes," stuck with me. (I love that quote!) But I'd turn it around and say, "As the tailors and others make beautiful clothes (and keep showing it on their websites and other avenues), fashion will quiet down."

Edited by cperry, 04 March 2015 - 01:36 AM.

  • hutch48 and ChiTownTailor like this

#3 SPOOKIETOO

SPOOKIETOO

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 04 March 2015 - 03:13 AM

I think its not just a matter of cost cutting.

 

I first knew the industry was in trouble when the zombie models began appearing. Fashion models are supposed to be nothing more than mannequins used to display the clothing. But for years now, print ads have displayed models in zombie makeup with zombie hair in a perverted monster pose. Much of the time the garment is not able to be adequately viewed. All attention is drawn away from the fashion and placed on the model. Not a good sign. Not at all what modeling is supposed to be all about. 

 

Then a few years later garments seemingly inspired by polygoop hanging in discount stores start to be pranced down the catwalks during fashion week. No shape, or some gawd-awful asymmetrical shape - even produced in polyester at times - with outrageous/hideous color combinations and so lacking in fit virtually no one could or would wear it. Really, why spend $3600 when you can have virtually the same look for $29.95?  And main street was wondering why women's clothing sales have been down.

 

I think the hugest part of the issue is that there is nothing new. Its all been done. Okay, so be it. Its all been done. So lets get back to celebrating the best of the best instead of creating more of the worst.


  • MANSIE WAUCH, hutch48, Henry Hall and 1 other like this

#4 cperry

cperry

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 181 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Minnesota USA
  • Interests:Fine sewing for children, English smocking, tailoring for women and men

Posted 04 March 2015 - 07:32 AM

I'll admit I don't understand the zombie theme. And I think models are more attractive when they look healthy, and not only a clothing hanger. I understand a lot of that is for shock effect or a theme for the show.

I'll also admit, I'm more aware of local trends than what's new according to the fashion houses. I enjoy the fun trends, like pretty scarves and equestrian fashionable boots, but I'm more classic than fashionista.

A few years ago I made it to a Sewing Expo, and attended a fashion show by a CAD designer company. I was amazed at the fact that the models were about my age at the time (35-ish) and they looked great; healthy, happy, and their clothing fit beautifully. I was impressed.

It was simple dresses and blouses and skirts, but it was well done. It was the fit that made the difference; the overall silhouette.

Edited by cperry, 04 March 2015 - 07:35 AM.

  • hutch48 and ChiTownTailor like this

#5 hutch48

hutch48

    Pro

  • Professional
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 749 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia
  • Interests:Big snippers, practical garments, computer programming and engineering. New website at signature link.

Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:26 AM

I laughed at both of your comments because they are true. Fashion is about commerce with a nonsense driven market to push up the sales figures of junk made in 3rd world slave pits. While there will always be change, different fabrics and different techniques to fabricate clothing, fashion has kept changing the appearance for no reasonable reason apart from trying to force new sales of garbage.

 

Good design rather than fashion works for people and well made items while costing more, DO last longer and this is the antithesis of fashion where seasonal change adds to the corporate coffers without care of value for money. Just as an example, in the winter I wear track pants made of fleece, I can buy a pair from Kmart for under $10.00 AU but they are far too wide and the legs are too short so I gave up in disgust, drafted a pattern and made my own out of some cheap, robust fleece for about the same cost in fabric as the junky ones. They are not fashion but they fit properly, are extremely robust (I am walking wreckage on clothing) and they look OK as well, not the shapeless baggy horrors from Kmart.

 

Funny part as well is that they are easy and fast to make with an overlocker, zig zag and ordinary straight sewer.


  • cperry likes this

#6 threadwhisperer

threadwhisperer

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 32 posts

Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:27 AM

I have no problem with the look of the models, if it contributes to the overall aesthetic of the artistic interpretation in fashion.  Fashion will change and evolve as it always has been.  There is usually controversy with art forms, if not, they are not worth bothering about.  Fashion has become an art form. That is a good thing.  Sometimes the only truth in life is in art and literature.


  • tailleuse likes this

#7 SPOOKIETOO

SPOOKIETOO

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:28 AM

threadwhisperer - at one point in my life I had actually considered obtaining a degree in art, so the merits of art are not lost on me at all. My family has many creative people.

 

I think fashion used to be creative. Throughout the 20th century fashions and styles changed frequently depending on things like social mores and technological advances, but quite frankly its all been done. There are only so many ways of wrapping the human body in fabric and they've basically all been accomplished. Creating something new just to be different does not make it good - its often just different. 

 

Architecture, music, painting are all suffering much the same as fashion. Our technology increased so swiftly in the latter part of the 20th century that originality is becoming more and more difficult. Someone does something and its out there for all to see and experience. First it took centuries, then decades for an idea to make it from one side of the world to another. Now It takes seconds to be distributed world-wide. The ability to produce what was once "fine art" is truly becoming the product of a gifted craftsperson. 

 

The problem with attempting to dress the human body in something truly original - is that at this point it will most likely not be an improvement. Concentrating on the tried and true and stressing the quality is really the only way to improve from here forward. There will be advances in fabrics and machinery and some interesting changes will arrive, but truly creative and unique has all been done.

 

Fashion reached the "Madonna Marketing" stage when it started featuring the Zombies. Once Madonna was no longer fresh and new, she went for shock value - that's Madonna Marketing. Fashion was always meant to be about the clothes - not the artistic achievements of its participants. At that point it is truly art and not fashion. 


  • cperry likes this

#8 hutch48

hutch48

    Pro

  • Professional
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 749 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia
  • Interests:Big snippers, practical garments, computer programming and engineering. New website at signature link.

Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:17 AM

I grew up in a world where pretty girls were a thing of virtue yet from time to time when I see a fashion parade on the news I tend to feel sorry for these poor skinny looking kids bordering on anorexia shuffle down the catwalk looking like they need a good feed and a bit more sleep. While it may be the "fashion" in clothing marketing to hang weird looking clothing on micro sized models, in a real world most women are not size 6 skeletons but 12 and 14 size genuine females and like race horses, size and physique is like "weight for age" in horse racing. ladies tend to get rounder and cheekier as they mature and instead of trying to look like half starved kids on the catwalk, the change to well designed functional clothing of high quality suits a mature lady who dresses in good taste without being "old hat".

 

Its fine for the kids (the healthy ones) to float around in the summer in hotpants and tank tops but a lady of maturity will not do this all that well although I have seen the odd exception that managed it properly. I don't really support the reverse justification of flaunting overweight people as normal but reasonable sized people who look after their health don't need to be mislead about having to look "young" when there are many virtues of having a brain, experience and knowhow. A good nick 50 year old can be very attractive if they don't buy the commercial nonsense of trying to look like anorexic kids wearing silly looking clothing.


  • SPOOKIETOO, cperry and Kimberly like this

#9 threadwhisperer

threadwhisperer

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 32 posts

Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:32 AM

I enjoy watching fashion shows and runway fashion as much as I enjoy going to a museum or watching a great sunset.  It's not for everyone obviously!


  • tailleuse likes this

#10 cthomas

cthomas

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 31 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:33 PM

In the past models always reflected a certain ideal figure or look that was the trend at the moment and the figure of the models always shifted with that trend. I don't think fashion was ever shown on a realistic diversity of body types, at least not in 'modern' times. Designers always choose models that highlighted the current trend. 

I think nowadays we are pretty much stuck in the trend of youth, which came somewhere around/after the 90's after the age of the supermodels and it is a trend that has been pushed to the limits, especially concerning age and figure of the models. It has had it's small changes in aesthetic (going from elfen-like models with almost alien-like features to full on drug-addict look), but the general ideal of youth has stayed.

 

Nowadays there isn't much possibility anymore for huge global trends like in the previous centuries that dictate fashion and body-ideals. Because of technology and internet everything has become available at any moment and every culture/sub-culture/group will have their own trends and preferences. Designers who focus on such a group or subculture will play into their trends and use models based on that preferred look.

In the past years besides the whole weight-issue of models, there has also been a lot of critique on lack of racial diversity.

 

 

 

I think fashion used to be creative. Throughout the 20th century fashions and styles changed frequently depending on things like social mores and technological advances, but quite frankly its all been done. There are only so many ways of wrapping the human body in fabric and they've basically all been accomplished. Creating something new just to be different does not make it good - its often just different. 

 

Fashion can still very much be creative, but in the current fashion system not many designers get the chance to really develop their collections. 

Fashion has changed and sped up incredibly in the past decade(s), it is more run as a business rather than a creative process. Designers hardly ever get to have complete freedom in their creativity anymore, they have to answer to the sales department, to the financial department, many big name designers and also the old couture houses have had part of most of their shares sold to big companies who prefer money over creativity.

(and let us not forget that they have to compete with high street fashion, who can have cheap copies of looks in stores pretty much a couple of weeks after a fashion show, while their own version will be in store 6 months later. Consumers are as much to blame for the decrease in quality and creativity, because people keep wanting more faster and cheaper)

 

You can find creativity more at independent designers who have managed to survive while not being sucked up by big companies or have managed to find their own path that works rather than to go into the stream of sucking up to magazines and making too many collections a year.

For example Asian designers such as Yohji Yamamoto and Comme de Garcons or maybe more known even Vivienne Westwood is a good example. They all found their own signature and don't let anyone dictate them to do otherwise. They might not be inventing new shapes, but they are still very creative within their own signature instead of just copying an archive of vintage pieces as many designers do.


  • sewbot, tailleuse, cperry and 1 other like this

#11 Henry Hall

Henry Hall

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:De Lage Landen

Posted 08 March 2015 - 11:50 AM

^ Agree with all of the above post. 

 

Fashion in the sense of commercial 'fast fashion' is a train wreck of slave factories servicing shopaholics. Nothing to do with art.

 

It's okay looking at fashion designing as "art", but there's a problem when the basis of the art - creating clothes - gets outweighed by the conceptual process. I don't like that shotgun methodology of creating piles and piles of alleged 'new looks' hoping that one or two will turn out something vaguely new. People should not fear being thought unsophisticated because they think a lot of fashion design is tripe, and it is tripe in terms of both ideas and very much so in construction.

 

My girlfriend's housemate, in a collective house, is a fashion designer (3-4 years at fashion school, worked here and there, own website, all that jazz). She comes up with the most ludicrously pretentious garments made out of things like yellow, pleather. The fashion police think they're great because she keeps getting them into shows. At a summer party she found out I dabbled with garment making and was showing me stuff. Awful, shoddy construction, some of it just wrong. You don't expect it of people who claim to have done garment construction courses. When we visited a show she was taking part in, I realised that a lot of the stuff is like this. They've gone completely to the conceptual design side and the actual artefacts are just rubbish. Fashion design is now like conceptual art, which is interesting and thought-provoking, but you can't really stand it in the hallway or hang it on the wall and admire the craftsmanship. It's all one-sided.


  • cthomas, hutch48 and Allsinc like this

Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#12 cthomas

cthomas

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 31 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 08 March 2015 - 08:41 PM

My girlfriend's housemate, in a collective house, is a fashion designer (3-4 years at fashion school, worked here and there, own website, all that jazz). She comes up with the most ludicrously pretentious garments made out of things like yellow, pleather. The fashion police think they're great because she keeps getting them into shows. At a summer party she found out I dabbled with garment making and was showing me stuff. Awful, shoddy construction, some of it just wrong. You don't expect it of people who claim to have done garment construction courses. When we visited a show she was taking part in, I realised that a lot of the stuff is like this. They've gone completely to the conceptual design side and the actual artefacts are just rubbish. Fashion design is now like conceptual art, which is interesting and thought-provoking, but you can't really stand it in the hallway or hang it on the wall and admire the craftsmanship. It's all one-sided.

 

 

Very much true, but that also has to do with the focus of the studies nowadays. If you study fashion design, you study to become a designer, not a seamstress or craftsman. It is very much focused on the design aspect, which nowadays happens a lot just on paper (especially if you work in a more commercial environment). Depending on the school and its program there might even be a huge lack in technical knowledge. I've heard stories of the academy in Antwerp, which is regarded as one of the best in Europe/worldwide, that right from the start students have their collections/samples made by seamstresses ensuring that it looks perfect. 

 

I myself also studied fashion design and although one there doesn't have to become a master in construction and sewing, they do want everyone to be able to create first toiles and samples to a standard that it can be presented (meaning that it doesn't have to be perfectly finished, but from the outside if on a body it should look like it is supposed too). I don't think this is very wrong, because not everyone can have a talent for both the technical side and the design side and the focus is on the latter.

 

I personally think a basic understanding of the technical side is very much necessary to get a realistic view of the possibilities. I ended up liking the technical side more than the design-part. In the end it all depends on the student and how invested/interested he/she is (and needs to be) in construction, patterns and all that.


  • MANSIE WAUCH and tailleuse like this

#13 tailleuse

tailleuse

    Master

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Interests:Tailoring and couture.

Posted 09 March 2015 - 05:46 AM

An interesting, but hardly new topic.  It wasn't new 15 years ago when Teri Agins wrote "The End of Fashion: How Marketing Changed the Clothing Business Forever."


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#14 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 09 March 2015 - 06:00 AM

The question is what is art? And how does one do it? Art is creation. Science is discovery. There are at least two types of minds. One is creative and the other accumulates knowledge. Schools are for the latter and don't know how to teach the other. This welder was telling me about some welds, that they were works of art, and it was just welding a couple of pipes together. That welder is an artist and it showed, while many others are just welders. Ancient art to modern, is it all art? And, what quality?

How many beginning painters have an idea, but when they stand in front of the canvas they realize they hadn't thought about the whole canvas. What to put in the blank spaces? And it is supposed to be equally as good. Frank Sinatra, one of his coats each part was expertly done, but none of it went together. It was like parts of ten different puzzles, so an odd picture.

What some younger people don't understand is that clothes were not timeless. Every three months they were to be thrown out, if you were a woman. Some were made for six months or a year. Men's had a longer time span. In America even the tailors kept up with the times. In the early 60s how many had skinny lapels? By the end of the 60s how wide were their lapels. The "timeless" showed up in the 80s as popular wisdom? What does popular mean? Here today and gone tomorrow? Some wisdom, huh?

Overall, has anything changed? People are still pushing what they want to see other people wear. So the battle never ends.

#15 Henry Hall

Henry Hall

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:De Lage Landen

Posted 09 March 2015 - 10:21 PM

I don't think that's entirely true at all Greger. There has always been a basic sort of every garment that doesn't have stylistic extremes and often forms the backbone of people's wardrobes; generally for a long time until it gets worn out.A person's level of income and lifestyle has always had an influence on the disposability of clothes, yet even just 30 years ago even wealthy people didn't throw away clothes on the scale the average person does now. The less wealthy hardly ever.

 

The skinny lapels of the 60s, wide lapels of the 70s etc represent a fashionable style for at least a decade, most times overlapping the previous and following decades at either end. This is not throwaway fashion, it's the slow change of styles that has always occurred. 


  • tailleuse and SPOOKIETOO like this

Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#16 tnperusse

tnperusse

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Interests:Fitting and pattern making for varied women's bodies - size and disability included. 20+ years in sewing, but newer to tailoring

Posted 28 April 2015 - 12:04 PM

Not sure why my post vanished, but here goes again. One place to look for craft skills and ideas is outside the usual fashion sources to cosplay - where teens and older meet wearing their versions of costumes for characters from anime (Japanese animated fils), sci-fi, graphic novels and so on. You will see remarkable sewing and tailoring skills, and a find a network of people who share their creativity and how-to. My daughter and her friends are learning how to make corsets, action hero outfits, elaborate traditional clothing and space-age garb. At the ,many meetings and conventions you see all sizes and types from plus sized drag queens in Marie Antoinette mode to painfully shy teenage girls fully garbed as Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who . Is it New York Fashion Week? Of course not. I hear endless complaints about kids in college fashion programs who can't sew or tailor to save their lives. I can introduce you to a 16 year old who is so dyslexic she gave up learning to machine sew and does everything by hand with stitches fit for any atelier. It is easy to dismiss it as simply "costumes" but they are becoming very discerning buyers and makers.

 

I think "fashion" has become a realm paid for with outlandishly expensive handbags and slave labour. The quality sucks. Everything has lycra so it doesn't have to be cut or sewn well. The kids I write about buy half of their clothing used and make it right for them. They look at seams and quality and to hell with this year's trends. They also care about where clothing is made and by whom. My daughter's best friend graduates from high school this year and when I offered to make her a grad outfit she requested a Chanel-style boucle jacket (thank you Claire Shaeffer) and a fine, classic wool dress that fits her perfectly and will last for years. I love it. 


  • Henry Hall and Schneiderfrei like this

Terry Nordoff-Perusse :hi: 


#17 SPOOKIETOO

SPOOKIETOO

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 237 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 28 April 2015 - 01:36 PM

I also have a niece that has been seriously involved in cosplay for more than a decade, since age 14. Amongst her and her friends I have seen no truly skilled sewists, but at least they all own a machine!

If nothing else, the evolution of costuming has at least returned a new generation to the craft, after skipping most people for 30 years. It is conceivable that some of these cosplayers will eventually take their skills into their real life.

Heaven help us if it leads fashion design even deeper into the lycra spandex knit world of Captains Kirk and Pickard!

#18 tnperusse

tnperusse

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Toronto, Canada
  • Interests:Fitting and pattern making for varied women's bodies - size and disability included. 20+ years in sewing, but newer to tailoring

Posted 01 May 2015 - 03:36 AM

Well, there are lycra/spandex moments wherever you go, but I get you. I would be appalled if all the kids doing this went forward into the business, but they do gain a real respect for how clothing is made. My daughter pointed out a very expensive RTW big name designer jacket and said: "it's a 1000 dollars and the stripes don't match - and the collar is rolling up". Music to a sewing mom's ears. 


  • SPOOKIETOO and cperry like this

Terry Nordoff-Perusse :hi: 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users