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A Crisis of Masculinity?


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#1 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 11:12 AM

What do folks think of this article?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-32161578

 

 


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#2 napoli

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 11:24 AM

All those who know me, know i am a crusader of the orthodox of classic style.

 

That of other forums, 99,9 of blogs etc, is fashion for degenerated people and alergic to Order, Law and Moral Principles.

 

You won´t ever find a serious proman on history as a general, prime minister, etc who dresses as Ronald McDonald, and i hope this fashion goes out of style asap, as London Punks and similar antisocial delinquents were out of fashion.

 

We deserve a sane society for sane people. :thumbsup: :Praying:


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#3 greger

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Posted 05 April 2015 - 05:33 PM

Didn't read the whole bit. Sounded like a rant to me. Most men in the 60s wore high-water pants. When I got to sixth grade it went out of style. Baggy pants look better longer.

Classic Style is misunderstood by younger people. Classic means grandeur, magnificent, and those kinds of words. Templates and blueprints that can produce magnificence are considered classics because the final product will be grandeur. But you have to remember that same template can be used to make something that is not classic. So, we are not talking about plain janes here as some younger people say. A non-classic template will never create a classic.
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#4 cthomas

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 02:24 AM

Must admit that I didn't read the complete bit either, but it seems like way too much trouble to argue against a simple style variation of the trouser that has been around since forever. (and comes and goes into fashion like flood and tide)

 

If people feel that masculinity is damaged by trousers hemmed shorter than 'properly' (which is different for every person so blah) then they are obviously very insecure about masculinity.


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#5 cperry

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 02:44 AM

I thought it was an interesting connection between the economy and men being starved... ??
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#6 tailleuse

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 05:06 AM

"Talocrural"?  New word! :-) The only "crural" I've ever encountered before (always in an article or book about England) is "intercrural." LOL.

 

I'll have to respond later.


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#7 Henry Hall

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 09:36 AM

I have to say that the beard and 'mankle' look, beloved of hipster types, fair gets on my nerves. They wear their trousers so low they look short-legged, then turn up the bottoms of the trousers (jeans) because the bottoms are dragging on the floor!

 

It bothers me as an apprentice old coot, but I know I can't do anything about it. Like the punks Napoli despises (but which I don't even half as much) I know styles, no matter how daft or different belong to a youth culture. What is worrisome is the number of men knocking 40, who adopt styles from youth culture. That looks atrocious. Can men in their late thirties, who grew up wearing casual clothes, be expected to trade in these clothes for suits, tweed jacket and flannels just because they hit 40?

 

I don't care all that much that people dress badly. In fact I want them to wear t-shirts and jeans, so that I have a chance of standing out at a party in better clothes. I get the feeling that people who bemoan the dominance of casual dress would be even more aghast if everyone took their advice and suited up. If that happened about 10,000 #menswear blogs would have to close down.

 

As for it being necessarily related to a degeneration of order, law and moral principles; that strikes me as right-wing, conservative drivel.


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#8 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 10:19 AM

I think the article would have been more impactful had it only been 1/3 the length. Yadda....yadda.....yadda.....really?


I think most of us here agree that the too short, too tight look of late is in desperate need of going the way of the mullet.

As for equating the look to something less masculine, I think most guys that feel comfortable with the look simply aren't worried about their own masculinity. Its the guys that would refuse to wear the look as someone might question their masculinity, that would be the most unsure of their own "manhood".

Equating the look to the economy, a mans inability to support himself or a family, etc., I think the author is a stodgy old fart that was having a very difficult time coming up with an article lengthy enough to justify a paycheck. Probably not one of his better days.

As for 40 somethings trying to pull off these looks...for most it truly is ridiculous. I recently met a client that I had only known via the telephone for more than three years. He always struck me as one of our most professional, intelligent, well organized clients. The first opportunity that my boss was able to quiz me about the client, my response was: "He has Cupie-doll hair!" Seriously. A grown professional man over the age of 40 with the hair style of a cupiedoll. Now when he doesn't respond as expected, where I used to think of him as busy, I now think of him as ditsy.

Not a good thing.
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#9 greger

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 12:16 PM

There is another side to these arguments. When you turn 35 from then on you are forced to wear blazers, sports coats and suits? Do you want to be boxed in to what other people think and their rules?!

Another side is the fact that deep armholes makes a coat rather worthless and for many that is all they can afford when it comes to coats with lapels. We don't live in the past when armholes were of reasonable useful depth rtw.
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#10 hutch48

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 02:49 PM

My view may be a bit severe here but my view on anyone who chooses to follow a fashion is they are trying to establish an identity that is a fake. When a guy is comfortable dressed like a sack of spuds without needing to conform to some fashion to be accepted, they have made it and where necessary they can dress up like fancy dress when it suits. Go to the beach and wear a swimsuit, have a shower in your birthday suit and if you are attacking the corporate sector, a Savile Row business suit, if it fits (the situation) wear it.  :twitch:


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#11 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 03:11 PM

I'm with you about the armholes greger.

 

Of course it is an article that is too long, sorry. but it is a bit of a syndrome, even here in South Australia.  Older guys are more likely to ditch the skateboard for a "fixy" bicycle.

 

Could this look be the male equivalent of the low rise jeans on women??  Well heck, the low crutch pants was a hell of a look too.


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#12 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 10:53 PM

Oh, I think its mostly just a look meant to give the youth something to call their own. Every generation has one. Its just that in recent decades the corporate bandwagon jumps on every fad/fashion to suck as much money as possible out of it. Then you mix that with the babyboomer and younger parents all refusing to get old and you wind up with long grown adults pretending to still be 20-something. There's really no great mystery.People buy what the corporations push at them.....no matter what their age.
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#13 tailleuse

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 02:40 AM

Is there an author?  The article is clickbait by an older man with very rigid ideas about gender presentation norms and no knowledge of fashion history. I'm not fond of the shrunken clothes look, but if a man is trim, youthful-looking, and wants to wear it, why not? It can be infantilizing, which is why I hated the version for women that was floated several years ago:  women are relentlessly infantilized.  Men, however, could stand some lightening up. Frankly, I thought that some of the photos, like the one of the man with the white beard, were meant as satire. A big problem with the piece is the uneven tone and uncertain intentions.

 

As for beards not working for hipsters with exposed ankles, I often encounter a young man with a full beard and long hair that he wears in a top knot. He's extremely handsome. I personally don't love beards for practical purposes -- they scratch -- but some men look great in them. I also hear that shaving is a  -----.


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#14 Henry Hall

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 05:42 AM

The Sumo wrestler style top-knot look is pretty irritating. The only reason I don't condemn people for dressing oddly is because it's up to them how they look, even if I happen to think the person in question looks like an utter twit.

 

One of my best friends is 44 and he still dresses like a teenage skateboarder and actually goes about on a 'longboard' (really just a skateboard with another name). It does him no sartorial favours and he ends up being taken less seriously. That's a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless.

 

Perhaps the only enjoyment I derive from the full-beard fad is the misery it must be causing to Gillette and their abominable expensive razor sales. Shaving is not painful in itself, it's just that a lot of men don't know how to do it.

 

Unrelated to this article's claims, I believe there is a crisis of masculinity since the position of women changed from the 1970s onwards in particular, but its outcome could turn out to be more beneficial than critics imagine. Fighting back by demanding a return to boorish, laddish imbecility is a dead end.


Edited by Henry Hall, 07 April 2015 - 06:21 AM.

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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#15 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 08:35 AM

Quote from Hutch!

 

When a guy is comfortable dressed like a sack of spuds without needing to conform to some fashion to be accepted, they have made it and where necessary they can dress up like fancy dress when it suits.

 

That's Me! :thumbsup: 


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#16 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 08:39 AM

What do folks think of this article?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-32161578

 

 

 

 

Short trousers showing some sock, and heaven forbid there is not enough width in the stride room!!   :thumbsup:  :sorcerer:


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#17 tailleuse

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 11:57 AM

The Sumo wrestler style top-knot look is pretty irritating.

 

I was talking about men who can pull it off. Such is the mystery of style.


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#18 tailleuse

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 12:00 PM

Fighting back by demanding a return to boorish, laddish imbecility is a dead end.

 

Fighting back by demanding that men adhere to an ossified, expensive and elaborate dress code is equally a dead end.


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