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A Crisis of Masculinity?


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#37 Henry Hall

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 11:36 AM

Oh really? Who was Norman Wisdom married to, Mr Grimsdale?

 

Ronald Reagan...how did a B-actor/nincompoop ever get to the Whitehouse?


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#38 greger

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:21 PM

Ronald Reagan didn't believe people should be holding the governments hand. Do you believe government should be holding your hand, Henry?

So many movies today lack qualified wardrobe personel. So many movies of the past the leading actors actually went to tailors who understood, if popular clothes, how to make them, or what the movie needed. So many tailors today know how to make a few clothes. Their scope is very limited. And they think everything else is wrong. And they think shoddy mass-produced proves it. Many old tailors knew how to make any garment property.

Edited by greger, 09 April 2015 - 02:23 PM.

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#39 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 08:03 PM

I have restrained myself for so long from launching a discussion about "Is James Bond just tailor porn"  

 

Love that scene in Skyfall where the camera pauses on Craig's hand and cuff to reveal an unbuttoned coat cuff button. Makes me laugh every time.

 

I agree that films at that level probably leave nothing visual to chance.


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#40 Henry Hall

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 09:02 PM

Ronald Reagan didn't believe people should be holding the governments hand. Do you believe government should be holding your hand, Henry?

 

No I don't, but neither do I believe it should be holding the hand of corporations, which was Ronald Reagan's major achievement. The problem with people who worship Reagan is that they tend to not know very much about economic reality and end up saying silly things. Stick to clothing.


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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

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#41 greger

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 04:54 AM

Do you know how much it costs to fly one way to New Zealand from the US before Reagan? Because of Reagan you can fly there and back for less than half. Now, poorer people could enjoy both ways. If that is not good economics what is? The economy was extremely stifled before Reagan. The liberals are still jealous, but the evidence of freer people shows advancement. When you look at the liberals outcome, their methods = Detroit. The liberals never point out, that, by far, most of the "middle class" moved up the ladder of wealth. I was around. I saw before and after.

Edited by greger, 10 April 2015 - 04:55 AM.

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#42 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 06:04 AM

Gregor - we must be living in different countries. The United States I live in now has more people receiving federal aid than ever before (more than 50%). The middle class is no where near as large as it used to be - the middle class has been shrinking for years. The shrinking size of the "upper middle class" is a large part of why many tailors are no longer able to properly support themselves.  The year I was born, 1958, minimum wage was $1/hour. To achieve a comparable standard of living today would require $17+/hour. And minimum wage in many areas is still $7.50. There are more and more Americans living in poverty. There are few jobs that pay a living wage.

 

Pictures I have seen of New Zealand are quite beautiful. Given an opportunity, I would not mind going there, but Airline charges were not restructured for poor people, or for middle class vacationers, they were restructured to service the needs of corporate America. Remove business travel from the equation and most airlines would fold.  Add to that, that it is the Airline Industry that is doing a substantial amount of the damage to our atmosphere resulting in global warming - and the question becomes:  is cheaper airfare such a good deal after all? 

 

I, for one, would simply like to be able to replace my broken hot water heater at some point in the next three months, and I keep praying that the tie rod issue on my car doesn't give out...that one is getting scary.   

 

But then I also don't believe I should be able to buy a decent pair of jeans for $10 ( I can) when I had to pay $20 for a pair in 1974. We all know how destroyed the garment industry is due to the corruption in corporate America. That same corruption has destroyed much of our way of life - and cheap air fare is of no concern to those who cannot afford to pay their utilities or go to the doctor even with the new "subsidized" health insurance - which pays NOTHING until you really get sick. 

 

Yes, the situation in Detroit should have never been permitted to get so perverted, as the corruption in our Healthcare system should have never been allowed to happen - Massive Corporations monopolizing the industry and stealing billions of dollars from our healthcare. But the undeniable fact is that Reaganomics was the beginning of the end. It will truly take a miracle to fix it.


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#43 Henry Hall

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 09:09 AM

I'd need a dozen more hands to be able to give the right number of thumbs up to Spookietoo's post. It's sad those fundamental truths still aren't recognised by a rather large group...

 

However, I probably shouldn't have derailed the thread away from clothing. One point in the above post about the destruction of sustainable garment industries in the west is an issue of political economy. It's a tricky one in some ways since the low-end Far-East garment factory products have also played a part in the resurgence of interest in better-made clothes, and enabled tailors to market themselves that way. I'm not sure that little gain was worth it for the Far East wage-slaves or the loss of domestic garment industries. It's not merely technology that paved this path, it was (wrong-headed) conscious decisions too.


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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#44 greger

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 05:25 PM

Not interested in writing about politics or the economy. Will say this. It wasn't good before Reagan and since then the Democrats have done a lot of damage. Caterpillar has moved to Switzerland, because of taxes. Another company might still be thinking of moving to Canada, because of taxes. Not sure how many have left to Europe or Canada because of taxes, and Obama, another Jimmy Carter, is scolding? What does he think, the government owns them. Instead of making the US a place to come and do business he is giving them reasons to leave. Haven't you guys noticed the health care system, under the Democrats, has opened more doors for companies to have a shorter work week for the low paid so those companies don't have to pay for the health care. A lot of smoke and mirrors there.

A lack of tailors in the US has much to do with CTDA and the Hippie generation. Nothing to do with Reagan. When Jimmy Carter was president I invested in an American company that started to manufacture clothes in Mexico for the US market. Can't blame Reagan for that, now can we? If I remember correctly a flight to New Zealand was $1,000 and I could live off of $5,000 to $6,000. With Reagan the cost was $400 there And Back. Why did the Democrats demand the poor pay taxes and then pay government workers to pay that money back? That means other tax payers had to pay higher taxes to pay those employees. No gain. Not equal. But, loss. Lately, in Washington state (not DC), the Democrats have given, the huge company, Boeing huge tax cuts, which other companies and businesses here rightfully think is not fair, because they have Boeings tax burden to pay. Democrats kissing the stinking feet of the over paid of Boeing? I guess they have been taught to grovel. It seems to me that is what their educational system teaches. If the Republicans were more involved students would be learning how to start and run businesses and invest. When I was in school the lessons of the progressives was have one or two children, no savings or investments because social security would be all we need. One or two children can't possibly pay enough SS, and hand tied to government. Now even they know that can not work. But a whole generation started late in preparing for retirement. This trust in government is what I do not like. Even in school 4 decades ago I didn't believe them. There is a need for personal responsibility that I see less and less of. The Republicans take one step forward and two back. That means the mess is the creation of the Democrats.

#45 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 06:19 PM

Oh greger - you're so funny!

Thankfully for all of us, your knowledge of tailoring far outweighs your political savvy.

#46 Henry Hall

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 08:10 PM

Splendid weather today. I think I'll wear a dress and have a crisis of masculinity.


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Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#47 greger

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 07:00 AM

No no, put on men's clothing that Romans wore 2,000 years ago. (If you are really pressed it is cheaper to live in a nudist Colony.☺)

#48 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 07:50 AM

I have for a long time been impressed that the Romans conquered the world in sandals and a skirt.  It also says something about the weather at that time I believe.


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#49 greger

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 08:54 AM

And the vikings coming across to, what is now Canada, and no mention of icebergs. Something like a thousand years ago. How warm was the earth then. If so, how could there be polar bears today if scientists today are correct. Don't do your own thinking, just let us pull the wool over your eyes they say. What was it, 1540s and Glaciers were marching down the mountains in the Alps? Sometimes a quarter mile a day. That would wipe out a whole village in just one day. And then the titanic being wiped out far from where icebergs come from.

Satellite laser temperature readings, what are they reading? Ground temperature? Air temperature a meter above ground so they can compare past hand taken measurements? Surface temperature is very different than air temperature a meter above the ground. Believe it was the scientist who started the global warming movement who brought this question up.

Persuasion, some people are good at it. To guard against it, read both sides. Some people think that reading what one side says about the other means they have read both sides.

#50 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 02:07 PM

For goodness sake, this thread is a bit misguided, but I fear I am right there with you on that one greger.


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#51 greger

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 04:29 AM

Something about proper clothes I was reading something from the 1890 or a little earlier and the rules of the road was very different because of different perspectives. It is amazing how much life can change. And if we look back just a little bit further the rules of the road for clothes were different. Today what I am seeing is a tug a war over the word "classic" of cherry picked time zones by so many people who never lived when their love "Classic" was popular and saying everybody else is wrong. Why do these people even want to be part of the past. So many generations show them stepping forward inventing instead of stepping back into time.

If you look at different time zones, if you look at different countries, even country to country the rules of the road were different. And these people are cherry picking "Classic". To add to this nonsense most of the rules by far were never written down, so they don't even understand why the clothes were what they were. Do we have to wait another generation before people start stepping into the future?

#52 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 11:05 AM

Greger - what future would you like people to step into clothingwise? Once mass produced clothing became available to the masses in the 50's - clothing styles quickly became subjected to what was considered stylish in both fashion houses and on Hollywood screens. Throughout the 50's until well into the 80's it is possible to look at photographs of the general public and determine within a 5 year time span what year it is. Styles changed drastically every 4 to 5 years. By the 90's, styles began to be recycled both so slowly and so quickly that we have now reached the stage of almost anything goes. Why? Because its all been done. There is nothing new.

For the past 15 years, RTW has been stuck in this mode of shapeless polyester goo. Its not comfortable, it doesn't last, and the shapes are so generic they often don't truly flatter anyone.

Let's face facts, the majority of us are not shaped to be at our best in a onesie Star Trek uniform. Though we have the technology for the fabric, I REALLY don't want to see a hundred people shaped like me walking around like that. Eeew!

So the youth are looking to the past for inspiration. And that's really all it is - inspiration. Because no matter the "classic" style chosen, it will be adapted to today's carefree, fast paced lifestyle. Men don't want to feel restricted in a necktie anymore than women want to return to the torture of a corset.

Mankind has dressed its 3 dimensional form in virtually every conceivable form available from a 2 dimensional fabric. I suppose eventually we may walk around dressed in holograms, but those days that the battery dies or malfunctions are going to be a b*#@h!

#53 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 11:13 AM

Oooh! And the halograms would be climate controlled and allow the wearer to nip in the waist and extend the chest.

Okay- young people - snap to it with the halogram clothing design!

I'm actually finding the concept rather intriguing.

#54 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 11:48 AM

Well there is another take on clothing, a crisis that happened long ago most likely.  

 

Many people seem to think that fashion is the same as excellence.  One no longer wears the clothing, the clothing wears you!  

 

A pair of trousers must look good encourage someone to pick it up and buy it rather than the idea of skillfully arranging cloth over ones body to enhance ones appearance.

 

The one that springs to mind is Levi 101's and a bomber jacket.  That's "Classic"to many people but when you have that look on you are stepping far from yourself.  You are being worn out and about by Levi. Or any other fashion house.  It's the time of the worship of brands.


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