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Rückenmitte = Center back


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#1 posaune

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:29 PM

Zuschneider wrote lately a remark
"die Einstellung der Rueckenmitte als Entenarsch"
(setting the center back so you get a duck's a....)

Now I looked at his webpage (http://www.berlinbes...om/pattern.html) and
found the beautiful pattern of a db coat. I attach the pic.
I looked at the back center.
How do you decide about the settings of the back center.
lg
posaune
I hope, you do not mind, Zuschneider. If - I delete the pic

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#2 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 06:49 AM

I left the important digits out, so nobody can steel my knowledge.


Edited by Der Zuschneider, 23 April 2015 - 06:51 AM.

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#3 posaune

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 10:08 PM

Oh Zuschneider,
nobody wants to steal anything from you.I just wondered about what you said.
I have looked a bit through this page and there are several different back constructions
(see attached pic, here we have different settings reaching from 7 cm to 2 cm at hip level!)).
I ask, because I had a customer, bend into front (skoliose). From the side view the shoulderblades were not level with hip.
The blades were about 4 cm forward.
So I did not set the back center, just cut in at waist 0.75 cm - like a dart to give a bit waist shaping.
I added length too.
But the lower center back seam were standing away like a duck's tail.
When I set the back all got better.
Where did I err?
lg
posaune

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#4 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 07:41 AM

Schwerer Fall, Rueckenlaenge sicher zu kurz, kein Schulterabnaeher.


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#5 posaune

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:46 PM

Yep, Zuschneider (but I did a shoulder dart).
With the help of 2 members and the excerpts of the book from Rianet Knevel another helpful member send me,
I came too to the conclusion the back was still to short.
I attach a pic version 1 was what I did and version 2 is what I should do.
Version 2 (with the back setting) gives me 3 cm more at back length as I had.
When I cut again I'll let you know how it works.
lg
posaune

Attached Files


Edited by posaune, 24 April 2015 - 10:00 PM.

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#6 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 05:14 AM

Am besten Abformen und  mit Nadeln stecken an der Seite, damit man die Richtung kennt.


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#7 greger

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 05:46 AM

If this, skoliose, is what I think it is, wouldn't the two backs be cut different? And, the center back seam appear to be straight so the person looks as normal as possible?

Some of these abnormal fittings is faster draped and make a paper pattern from that. Time is money.
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#8 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:19 PM

The Rundschaubook 15. shows a way to do a skoliose customer with wo different back pattern. There is no money to pay that art today.


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#9 posaune

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:58 PM

Sorry, gentlemen, I had the wrong expression. Schneiderfrei told me. The scoliose is not so bad 1.5 cm between
left and right - no brain stormer. It is the bending forward. I do not know the right word. I thought scoliose is it.
Draping is out of question - customer can't stand up longer time.
Fitting I do sometimes with customer between 2 chairs where she can hold herself.
lg
posaune

#10 Terri

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:25 PM

Yep, Zuschneider (but I did a shoulder dart).With the help of 2 members and the excerpts of the book from Rianet Knevel another helpful member send me,I came too to the conclusion the back was still to short.I attach a pic version 1 was what I did and version 2 is what I should do.Version 2 (with the back setting) gives me 3 cm more at back length as I had.When I cut again I'll let you know how it works.lgposaune


I think version 2 is better for what you describe. Is the curve more in the centre or is the whole upper back and shoulder blade area rounded? Usually the curve is sever at mid back level as well, as the arms come forward.
Very challenging.

It may be called Dowager's hump, although if the person is quite bent over it is more than that. i think I can picture it, and I always wondered why that develops so severely in some people.

#11 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 08:31 AM

posaune

 

You may need to do an adjustment on the front also. see diagram. (please excuse poor graphics)

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#12 greger

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 11:12 AM

One hunchback I saw started right at the neck seamline maybe going a little up as it was going way out. The bottom ended before the bottom of the scye. So Mansies top wedge was about the end of it. The extention beyond the normal back seamline was way out there. The shoulders were quite forward, so a hollow front. The garment back was a one piece shirt or blouse. Clean fitting at that. lf I were figuring a pattern for that the scye first, then back, neck and shoulder line, finally side seam. Rock of eye. Mathematical guessing would be a waste of time for me.
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#13 posaune

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Posted 26 April 2015 - 05:43 PM

many thanks for getting so much support.
To my deep regret I have not the gift "rock of eye" Greger. I am more educated on the technical mathematic side.
It is no dowager hump alone. The person stands with the knees slightly bend, the back looks wide.
Back armhole gapes, front is too tight
The front length is small the back length larger in the upper body. In the lower body it is the other way round.
I have to manipluate the front pattern too not alone in length in width and the size of the bust dart too.

I attach a sketch of the person's posture (do not laugh!)
Lepus wrote to me (including some very informative literature to read about that theme):

- front/back balance adjustment obviously
- consider adding some interfacing to the (upper) back, that makes it much easier to provide controlled width/length where it is needed and forms a foundation for controlling fullness (back of armscye)
- consider adding additional seams, such as a yoke, or princess seams of some kind
- as it is generally seen as preferable to strive for a tailored look, avoid excessive width and length where possible, a tent is generally not what is wanted
- add more or customised shoulder padding as needed to obtain a crisp look
Next I have to sew a blouse.
lg
posaune

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Edited by posaune, 26 April 2015 - 05:45 PM.

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#14 greger

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Posted 27 April 2015 - 04:39 AM

Your picture looks the opposite of sway back, and not hunchback. A rounded back needs more length across to the scye. Therefore, the lack of cloth across the back means the front is being pulled to where it is missing. But the arm is preventing the cloth moving into place, therefore, pressure. Widening the back so the back scye is where it needs to be, and the excess at front scye is removed. If there is hunchback included I would open up the back seam to accommodate that.
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#15 MANSIE WAUCH

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:39 AM

One hunchback I saw started right at the neck seamline maybe going a little up as it was going way out. The bottom ended before the bottom of the scye. So Mansies top wedge was about the end of it. The extention beyond the normal back seamline was way out there. The shoulders were quite forward, so a hollow front. The garment back was a one piece shirt or blouse. Clean fitting at that. lf I were figuring a pattern for that the scye first, then back, neck and shoulder line, finally side seam. Rock of eye. Mathematical guessing would be a waste of time for me.

 

Hello Gregor,

 

I agree what you say about rock of eye.

Without seeing the customer, it is very difficult to judge specific amounts. I always make an adjustment of 1.5 cm to demonstrate the adjustment needed. In most cases it is usually enough, but as you say, it is a matter of good judgement and experience.


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#16 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:21 AM

You see the customer and you think, man, what a long back he needs, then you guess and it is mostly right. But to transfer it into a pattern is another story.


Edited by Der Zuschneider, 28 April 2015 - 01:34 PM.

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#17 greger

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:23 PM

You take your guesses and see how close you are. The guess is the paper pattern. The inlays allow the fitting. Take the baste fitted garment apart and lay on the paper pattern. (Correct the paper pattern for later use.) By these corrections over time you will draw what you see accurately. It is a skill one developes. It is like learning to play an instrument = lots of practice. Think of trigonometric with out numbers and polar trigonometric for navigational reasons and dead reckoning. The reason why I say polar is because it includes curves, such as, over the shoulder. Other thoughts are navigational points and coordinates. Some people say artist rarely get lost. In traveling you are drawing a picture or scribble, now if you look at your scribble you know where you left the car. Drawing patterns is the same.
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