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Frank Shattuck Anthony Bordain Jeffery Diduch bespoke tailoring Raphael Raffaelli tailoring apprenticeship

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#19 Schneidergott

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 03:35 AM

If you want to recreate at least one part of the experience:

 

https://www.thewhisk....com/P-284.aspx


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#20 Measure Man

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Posted 03 May 2015 - 04:40 AM

Then after a bit the suit fit won't matter :yahoo:


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#21 tailleuse

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 01:47 AM

If you want to recreate at least one part of the experience:

 

https://www.thewhisk....com/P-284.aspx

 

It's ironic because Bordain met (or used to drink with) Shattuck in a dive bar in a Manhattan subway station.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#22 tailleuse

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 02:58 AM

Interesting chap. Rather a bare workroom too. No sign of a $5000 Juki or a suction board at all. He must have hidden them away to heighten the drama :) .

 

Per Sator, who while not infallible, can be assumed to know his stuff:*  "Always use a professional tailoring iron - not a domestic iron. A vacuum board is preferred."  (Emphasis added).

 

 

 

*sarcasm


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#23 Schneidergott

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 07:55 AM

 

 "Always use a professional tailoring iron - not a domestic iron. A vacuum board is preferred."

 

A domestic iron is only good for ironing. Given the too low temperature and the often ridiculously light weight, it's not good enough for proper pressing. It's (literally) designed to make housework easier.

For tailoring (not to be confused with factory work or sewing classes) you want a robust, heavier iron that gets to a temperature of at least 180° Celsius.

Re: Vacuum pressing board! While not a necessity (also often expensive and space consuming) it does make a big difference for giving a clean finish. Especially useful with a blow function for delicate or dark cloths. You might want to try it, and once you have you don't want to miss it.


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#24 tailleuse

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 10:21 AM

 

A domestic iron is only good for ironing. Given the too low temperature and the often ridiculously light weight, it's not good enough for proper pressing. It's (literally) designed to make housework easier.

For tailoring (not to be confused with factory work or sewing classes) you want a robust, heavier iron that gets to a temperature of at least 180° Celsius.

Re: Vacuum pressing board! While not a necessity (also often expensive and space consuming) it does make a big difference for giving a clean finish. Especially useful with a blow function for delicate or dark cloths. You might want to try it, and once you have you don't want to miss it.

 

No, a vacuum board is not a necessity, but another member previously suggested that using one was some kind of affectation, when it's basic equipment. I replied that they serve a purpose, and in addition to my own experience seeing them in use, I must have remembered that Sator discussed them.

 

In fact, some of the topics that have been the subject of dispute by members who aren't terribly familiar with tailoring are mentioned in this forum's introductory sections for beginning and intermediate students.  For example, students should use reasonably priced, solid cloth that is 100% wool and forgiving.


Edited by tailleuse, 09 May 2015 - 10:30 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#25 Schneidergott

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 05:55 AM

The question of whether you have modern tools (like industrial steam iron/ boiler and vacuum board or a computerized sewing machine) in your workroom or not also depends on as what you want to present yourself, or if you present yourself at all to the outside world.

 

For hand tailored suits any straight lock stitch machine will do, same applies to a heavy iron. If your customers are willing to pay for old school making (which is a bit more time consuming) they should get what they pay for. Walking into the workroom of a tailor who claims to do a lot by hand like it was done in the good old days and then spotting modern equipment will put them off.


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#26 Henry Hall

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 11:16 AM

 

No, a vacuum board is not a necessity, but another member previously suggested that using one was some kind of affectation, when it's basic equipment. I replied that they serve a purpose, and in addition to my own experience seeing them in use, I must have remembered that Sator discussed them.

 

In fact, some of the topics that have been the subject of dispute by members who aren't terribly familiar with tailoring are mentioned in this forum's introductory sections for beginning and intermediate students.  For example, students should use reasonably priced, solid cloth that is 100% wool and forgiving.

 

Is 'basic' equipment really the right description? An iron is basic, a costly vacuum board is an investment. If I could afford to buy one and had the space for one, I'd likely get one, but I don't and I'm not a professional anyway. I'm fairly confident, going off remarks made by Jukes and Mansie inter alios, that making garments can still be done without such luxury tools, and so, despite the absence of a vacuum table, I haven't lost hope.

 

On the other hand, I didn't initially appreciate the superiority of a heavier iron, but it does make a difference - less actual pressing effort for a start. Heavy irons are hard to come by though. The one I have is only 4kg (going on for 9 lbs), which though not like one of those huge traditional irons, is adequate. I really can't put much store in the view that you have to have the newest and best tools to be doing it 'right'. If that was true it must mean that what tailors did before the invention of the vacuum board is now outmoded practice, but that's not entirely true is it?


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#27 jukes

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 01:21 PM

Buying the latest tools for any trade, might make the task easier, does it make it better, no.
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#28 tailleuse

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 03:36 PM

The question of whether you have modern tools (like industrial steam iron/ boiler and vacuum board or a computerized sewing machine) in your workroom or not also depends on as what you want to present yourself, or if you present yourself at all to the outside world.
 
For hand tailored suits any straight lock stitch machine will do, same applies to a heavy iron. If your customers are willing to pay for old school making (which is a bit more time consuming) they should get what they pay for. Walking into the workroom of a tailor who claims to do a lot by hand like it was done in the good old days and then spotting modern equipment will put them off.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#29 tailleuse

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 03:45 PM

The question of whether you have modern tools (like industrial steam iron/ boiler and vacuum board or a computerized sewing machine) in your workroom or not also depends on as what you want to present yourself, or if you present yourself at all to the outside world.
 
For hand tailored suits any straight lock stitch machine will do, same applies to a heavy iron. If your customers are willing to pay for old school making (which is a bit more time consuming) they should get what they pay for. Walking into the workroom of a tailor who claims to do a lot by hand like it was done in the good old days and then spotting modern equipment will put them off.


I'd love to see a survey, but I don't think any tailor is less "authentic" for using an industrial gravity iron and an ironing board with a vacuum function. They've been around for a long time.

As for the machine, as I've said more than once, the tailors I've seen use industrial lockstitch machines, which, as I said above, do not cost anything like $5,000.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#30 Schneidergott

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 06:29 PM

Spending more than 1000,- (whether it's Euro, US Dollar or British pound) doesn't make a lot of sense in the bespoke trade.

Features like thread trimmer and needle positioning are nice to have, but not a must. But it's easy to replace the old clutch motor with a simple servo motor and it doesn't cost much.


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#31 Henry Hall

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Posted 10 May 2015 - 08:00 PM

As for the machine, as I've said more than once, the tailors I've seen use industrial lockstitch machines, which, as I said above, do not cost anything like $5,000.

 

When I said $5000 in that reply, I was being deliberately hyperbolic for joke effect.

 

On the other hand, though you can get new basic industrial in the U.S. for around $700 with table and motor (like e.g. here), it's not the same everywhere else. Here in NL a quality second-hand one is between 1,500-3,000 euros, starting prices.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#32 Schneidergott

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 06:57 AM

Try strima.com or look here: http://stores.ebay.d...d=p4634.c0.m322


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#33 Henry Hall

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 07:21 AM

Hey, thanks for that SG. It's knowing where to look I suppose. They're all originating from Poland, I wonder how much the carriage costs are? Even if it is only a few hundred it's still cheaper than buying one locally, which is actually quite ridiculous.


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#34 Alievens

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 07:48 AM

Here in NL a quality second-hand one is between 1,500-3,000 euros, starting prices.

 

Used ones can easily be found for far less than that.

My juki was €300. It was in good condition, only the clutch wasn't reliable.

Any second hand site (like marktplaats) usually has a few similar machines listed.



#35 Henry Hall

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Posted 11 May 2015 - 08:11 AM

I've checked marktplaats as often as time allows, I must keep missing them! There are many for 1000. When I find the right one I'll bite. Hopefully not in the last town in Maastricht (long drive).

 

Currently I use a Pfaff 130 for most jobs, but I'd like an industrial, for the quiet motor and solid build especially; though mine is not all that noisy really. 


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#36 Alievens

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 04:48 AM

Unless it has a servo, the motors aren't exactly very quiet :-/

 

This one here looks ok but it has a clutch motor

 

If I had enough room and dispensable cash, I'd buy an industrial overlock to replace my plastic singer.

I hate how I have to literally feed the fabric with one hand while my other hand keeps the machine from vibrating of the table.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Frank Shattuck, Anthony Bordain, Jeffery Diduch, bespoke tailoring, Raphael Raffaelli, tailoring apprenticeship

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