Jump to content


Photo

Advice on apprenticeships?


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 ventolin

ventolin

    Umsie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 May 2015 - 12:04 AM

Hi all,

 

I'm a 27 year old student from Amsterdam, and will be finished with the studies this summer. Currently I'm looking for a work placement as an apprentice, preferably as a cutter, although I would love coat making as well. I've been to London recently, which was really interesting and I've spoken to many tailors on the Row and elsewhere and spent a day at Anderson & Sheppard's. But it seems hard to get in and find a work placement. I've had some offers, but none were fulltime paid apprenticeships. 

 

Anybody have any tips or advice on companies or places to look? Doesn't have to be in London, I would go anywhere. I just want to find an apprenticeship and be able to learn and improve my skills as a tailor/cutter. 

 

 

Much appreciated,

 

Riekele Scholte


  • Schneiderfrei likes this

#2 Martin Stall

Martin Stall

    Wizard

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 15 May 2015 - 12:57 AM

Hee daar,

 

I doubt you'll find a fulltime paid apprenticeship anywhere. The old master/apprentice model has pretty much disappeared.

 

These days, people don't stay in the same job as long as in the past, so a company would effectively be paying you for an education, room, board and and holidays, until such time that you decide to start out on your own or get a job elsewhere. For a company, it's not a help, or an investment, as much as it's a liability.

 

I think you'll have more success if you approach it the way you would approach studying: you show up, you learn, and in your free time you work some other job to pay your keep.

 

Sounds harsh, perhaps. But remember that if you stick it out for a few years, you'll be master of a trade that very few people understand, and  that will stay with you for life.


  • Der Zuschneider, tailleuse, jeffrey2117 and 2 others like this
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#3 posaune

posaune

    Pro

  • Super Pro
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 956 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Germany

Posted 15 May 2015 - 01:18 AM

Überblick über das Stellenangebot
Referenznummer

10000-1127498727-S
Titel des Stellenangebots

Maßschneider/in mit Schwerpunkt Herrenschneider/in (Maßschneider/in)
Stellenangebotsart

Ausbildungsplatz
Arbeitgeber
Stadtverwaltung Trier

Branche: Allgemeine öffentliche Verwaltung, Betriebsgröße: zwischen 501 und 5000
Stellenbeschreibung

Du suchst eine handwerkliche Ausbildung in einem kreativen Umfeld und hast Sinn für Mode und Interesse an Kultur?
Dann bewirb Dich um einen Ausbildungsplatz als Maßschneider/in im Theater Trier.


Wann ist Ausbildungsbeginn?

01.09.2016


Was ist Ausbildungsinhalt:

Ob historisch oder ausgefallen - wenn Du Dich für Mode interessierst, könnte der Beruf Maßschneider/in das Richtige für Dich sein. Hier fertigst du individuelle Bekleidungsstücke statt Klamotten von der Stange, und gestaltest Kleidung je nach Wunsch des Kostümbildners.
Dies sind sowohl historische Kostüme, Phantasiekostüme als auch zeitgenössische Bühnenoutfits.
Dafür musst du nicht nur Talent und Stil mitbringen, Du benötigst auch hervorragende Materialkenntnisse sowie ein flinkes Händchen für die perfekte Ausführung.
Den unverwechselbaren Charme der Unikate erreichst Du als Maßschneider/in sowohl mit traditionellen handwerklichen Techniken als auch mit modernen Fertigungsmethoden.

Darüber hinaus gehören auch Änderungsarbeiten.

Als Teil eines Teams strebst du danach, mit dem perfekten Kostüm zum erfolgreichen Gelingen einer Veranstaltung beizutragen.

Die 3 jährige Ausbildung gliedert sich in einen praktischen Teil im Theater der Stadt Trier und einen theoretischen Teil, der an der Berufsbildenden Schule für Ernährung, Hauswirtschaft und Sozialpflege in Trier absolviert wird.


Folgende Kenntnisse und Fertigkeiten werden u.a. im Rahmen der Ausbildung vermittelt:

• Fertigung von Kostümen
• Bügeln und Fixieren von Stoffen
• Änderungsarbeiten
• Zuschneiden von Stoffen
• Ausführen von gestalterischen Arbeiten
• Mitarbeit in der Fundus-Organisation

Darüber hinaus werden in der Berufsschule Kenntnisse in folgenden Fächern vermittelt:

• Berufsbildung, Arbeits- und Tarifrecht
• Aufbau und Organisation des Ausbildungsbetriebes
• Sicherheit und Gesundheitsschutz bei der Arbeit
• Planen und Vorbereiten von Arbeitsabläufen, Kundenorientierung


Wie hoch ist der Verdienst?

Du erhältst eine monatliche Ausbildungsvergütung, die wie folgt gestaffelt ist:

1. Ausbildungsjahr: rd. 850,00 Euro brutto
2. Ausbildungsjahr: rd. 900,00 Euro brutto
3. Ausbildungsjahr: rd. 950,00 Euro brutto


Wie sind die Übernahmechancen?

Die spätere Übernahme orientiert sich am voraussichtlichen Personalbedarf des Theaters Trier. Auf jeden Fall hast Du nach Deiner qualifizierten Ausbildung sehr gute Chancen auf dem Arbeitsmarkt und ggf. auch eine gute Grundlage für ein weiterführendes Studium.


Was solltest Du mitbringen?

• ein guter Hauptschulabschluss / eine gute Qualifikation der Berufsreife
• handwerkliches Geschick
• Kreativität
• Interesse an Kunstgeschichte
• Interesse an Kultur
• Einsatzbereitschaft und soziale Kompetenz


Wann ist Bewerbungsschluss und wohin müsst Ihr die Bewerbung senden?

Wir freuen uns auf eure Bewerbungen mit den üblichen Unterlagen (Lebenslauf, letztes Schulzeugnis, E-Mail-Adresse) bis zum 26. September 2015 an das

RATHAUS TRIER – Zentrales Controlling Personal – Postfach 3470, 54224 Trier – Auskünfte erteilt euch gerne Frau Julia Borens – Tel. 0651 / 718-1116

Bitte sendet keine Originale und keine Mappen, da wir eure Unterlagen nicht zurücksenden können.
Arbeitsorte

Am Augustinerhof, 54290 Trier, Rheinland-Pfalz, Deutschland

lg
posaune

#4 Der Zuschneider

Der Zuschneider

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX, Houston
  • Interests:- German Cutting Systems
    - Modern Tailoring by German Semi-Traditional Standards

Posted 15 May 2015 - 02:03 AM

Apprenticeship in Germany is possible, but only with excellent German language skills and enough money and luck to pay rent and find a flat.

Today, if you want to learn tailoring you need to bring in money on the table there is not such thing like apprenticeships. All apprentices are burdens to the tailors today.

 

 

Anyway, it might happen a tailor will take you. He will make sure that you don't learn too much too fast, because he needs you 10 years as a slave to make trousers and alterations. There will always be minimum wage for you until you get too smart. To be smart means to learn excessiv and to invest in own tools and cutting books at home. 8 hours at work and another 5 hours getting busy at home.

 

 

With 27, you need to bring a good trouser you have made to show the tailor, it does not need to fit to good but it need to show your craft skills. If your trouser fits too good, then you might be already appearing to smart to be an apprentice and the tailor thinks, he just will steal my knowledge.

 

To be become a tailor you are a choosen one who learns to suffer or you are coming from a rich family, then it is very easy to learn it without suffering.


Edited by Der Zuschneider, 15 May 2015 - 09:26 AM.

  • tailleuse and Fero like this
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#5 Henry Hall

Henry Hall

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:De Lage Landen

Posted 15 May 2015 - 03:08 AM

These days, people don't stay in the same job as long as in the past, so a company would effectively be paying you for an education, room, board and and holidays, until such time that you decide to start out on your own or get a job elsewhere. For a company, it's not a help, or an investment, as much as it's a liability.

 

It's no doubt true, but this only reflects the fact that companies in the west can no longer rely upon cheap youth labour like they once did. What they will be paying for is any person's labour, which is in no way unreasonable, even if the person is training on-the-job. It's not hard for a company to offer a contract that will recoup the value of the cost of training if they are so afraid of employees running away. If the job is satisfying and so hard to get into in the forst place, why would anyone leave?


Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#6 Martin Stall

Martin Stall

    Wizard

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 15 May 2015 - 03:25 AM

Grass is always greener on the other side of the hill. People leave, it's a fact. A company that invests in training someone up at full pay is stitching themselves up. Maybe that's not how it should be, but it's a reality.

 

LIke that post Posaune put up: 850 Euro for the first year. I don't know what prices are like in Trier, but I doubt that will cover more than rent and a bit of food. The employer understands that it can not be them investing in the training.

 

On that note: I also think that this is fair: the trainee/apprentice should also be invested in getting an education.

 

The thing to remember is that being an apprentice isn't like a job. At best, an apprentice will deliver 50% of actual effective work input. The other 50% is learning, which takes up resources from accomplished employees.

 

Riekele, I'm not trying to be negative - just trying to give you a way of looking at the situation that gives you more possibilities.


  • tailleuse and jeffrey2117 like this
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#7 Henry Hall

Henry Hall

    Pro

  • Senior Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:De Lage Landen

Posted 15 May 2015 - 03:35 AM

That's a fair point. I suppose the apprenticeship has always really been for a young person with fewer responsibilities (food, housing etc, no children at all!). An apprentice of the past in any trade would have 'lived in' at low cost and in the 20th century would have been likely living at home or in cheap lodgings.

 

That cost factor and the fact that young people are now given forever to find their way, really makes the traditional apprenticeship obsolete.


Edited by Henry Hall, 15 May 2015 - 03:35 AM.

Each phenomenon which is taken up should be treated with as much thoroughness as possible at that standpoint... One thing at a time and that done well!

 

- Otto Jespersen (How to Teach a Foreign Language).


#8 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 15 May 2015 - 03:35 AM

You could try and contact the bespoke tailor's associations in the countries you would consider working in.

Benelux, UK or even Germany.

 

That apprenticeship offer from the Trier theater is as good as it can get, they'll pay 850,- Euro brutto/ before tax a month and you might also be able to get further financial support if you need it (some countries/ states and cities have student exchange programs).


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#9 Martin Stall

Martin Stall

    Wizard

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain

Posted 15 May 2015 - 03:41 AM

That's a fair point. I suppose the apprenticeship has always really been for a young person with fewer responsibilities (food, housing etc, no children at all!). An apprentice of the past in any trade would have 'lived in' at low cost and in the 20th century would have been likely living at home or in cheap lodgings.

 

That cost factor and the fact that young people are now given forever to find their way, really makes the traditional apprenticeship obsolete.

Maybe it's not so much that it's obsolete - just really untenable. An apprentice back in the day would often stay for decades, or even end up taking over the shop. Find me an apprentice who'll stick around for at least 15 years, and then we'll talk ;)

 

 


  • Der Zuschneider and jeffrey2117 like this
Sure, I believe your work rocks, but... have you considered, how are you going to sell that stuff?

http: under construction...

#10 greger

greger

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Washington, USA

Posted 15 May 2015 - 04:37 AM

Once the Apprenticeship is finished you'll be lucky to get two years out of them. There is no pay back worth mentioning for all the lessons and wages given. K-12 is where the lessons should be or private.

#11 Schneidergott

Schneidergott

    Master

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,680 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland

Posted 15 May 2015 - 06:07 AM

When I started the monthly compensation for an apprentice was 110,- DM.

And the senior boss of that company was still complaining about apprentices costing too much money. Truth was that we did the jobs for which he would have had to pay fully trained employees full wages.

 

In Germany the few remaining places to appentice are in major cities, so rents are high and/or you have to commute for hours every day. Here's the German master tailor association:

 

http://www.bundesver...s-schneider.de/


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#12 Der Zuschneider

Der Zuschneider

    Master

  • Senior Professional
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,429 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:TX, Houston
  • Interests:- German Cutting Systems
    - Modern Tailoring by German Semi-Traditional Standards

Posted 15 May 2015 - 09:29 AM

Maybe it's not so much that it's obsolete - just really untenable. An apprentice back in the day would often stay for decades, or even end up taking over the shop. Find me an apprentice who'll stick around for at least 15 years, and then we'll talk ;)

 

 

Yep, Amen!


www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#13 ChiTownTailor

ChiTownTailor

    Apprentice

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 129 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:Bespoke tailoring, bespoke shoemaking, bespoke shirtmaking, and all that jazz :-)

Posted 18 May 2015 - 06:17 AM

Here's the German master tailor association:
 
http://www.bundesver...s-schneider.de/

Those pics from the catwalk on the Bundesverband site hurt my eyes so badly! 😱😖
To me those pics spell the death of the good ole' maßschneider; a bygone era...?

Edited by ChiTownTailor, 18 May 2015 - 06:31 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users