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Menefreghismo: Analysis of a Neapolitan coat by Jeffery Diduch

Jeffery Diduch Menefreghismo Neapolitan Tailoring sloppy work

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#19 tailleuse

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 12:51 AM

"Voxsartoria long ago promised me a suit of his for dissection"

Went back and reread the subject. I see Vox Should have demanded his money back. Maybe the tailor had a stroke, but it still not saleable.

 

It wasn't Voxsartoria's (love the name) suit.  I gather he collects suits.

 

"Voxsartoria sent me a suit that he had acquired from the original owner."

 

http://tuttofattoama...efreghismo.html

 

 

EDITED TO ADD:

 

In the comments to Jeffery's blog, Voxsartoria explains the history of the suit. It's 10 years old, and he bought it from someone else.  It never fit him well and he bought it with the idea that someone one day would cut it open and analyze it.  He actually likes the style of the suit despite its technical flaws.


Edited by tailleuse, 12 June 2015 - 12:57 AM.

Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#20 jukes

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 02:59 AM

Just a thought. Wonder if the customer bought his own cloth (which was insufficient) and begged the tailor to make it even though the tailor advised him otherwise. Hence the mismatching of stripes, also the tailor might have been trying out a new finisher (all hand stitching and buttonholes) without checking their work first. These things do happen from time to time, that being said the shop should not have let it go out in that condition.


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#21 greger

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 04:37 AM

Then the customer must have asked for it to be made very sloppy on purpose. It probably fit very well, but gave the appearance of poor man's clothing. Therefore, a disguise, which is what I thought it was. Except, a bit over done. Perhaps it was made for TV, Movie or theater.

Heard this story some years ago. One of the Kings of England went to the theater to watch a play. The rags the actor of the poor man was wearing were done so well that the king asked the theater tailor who made those "rags" to come make the kings clothes. Even in making rags there can be artistic skills. The coat in question we haven't seen it on the customer, which leaves a lot of questions. Sometimes tailors are asked to make unusual garments.

Edited by greger, 12 June 2015 - 04:38 AM.

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#22 tailleuse

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 11:22 AM

Just a thought. Wonder if the customer bought his own cloth (which was insufficient) and begged the tailor to make it even though the tailor advised him otherwise. Hence the mismatching of stripes, also the tailor might have been trying out a new finisher (all hand stitching and buttonholes) without checking their work first. These things do happen from time to time, that being said the shop should not have let it go out in that condition.

 

In the comments to Jeffery's post a couple of people wondered if the work had been done by an apprentice.  I don't believe the question was answered.  The assumption was that the standard illustrated is typical of that shop, at least at that time.


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#23 SPOOKIETOO

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Posted 12 June 2015 - 10:26 PM

Years ago, I worked as a designer in the office design department of a major chemical manufacturer with several other interior designers. Our boss, on her way out of the door for her last appointment of the day, let it slip that it was her birthday. By the time she returned an hour or so later, we had "decorated" her office with colored markers on white paper and taped "curtains" around the window, "lace doilies" on the arms of her desk chair, etc. - all in the drawing style of a 7- year- old. She loved it and we all laughed for almost 15 minutes.

I think we are looking at the sartorial equivalent of that joke, probably done for a respected master by an appreciative apprentice staff and he thought enough of the effort to keep it and give himself smiles for many years. Its the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

Edited by SPOOKIETOO, 12 June 2015 - 10:27 PM.


#24 jukes

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 12:31 AM

Very much doubt this is the work of an apprentice, it would have been spotted by his / her peers during make up, which would have resulted in verbal abuse . If it was done in jest, surely it would have been made more obvious (ie Stripes on the horizontal) I still think this is a result of an outworker or outworkers that were not previously checked for work quality, along with a cloth shortage.


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#25 tailleuse

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Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:52 AM

One of Jeffery's readers, a man with a doctorate in Italian Studies, provides a detailed etymological and historical explanation of "sprezzatura." He believes the term is often misused. 


Dignity. Always, dignity. (Singin' in the Rain)


#26 carpu65

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 03:13 PM

I confess:

I don't like Neapolitan tailoring (or at least the Neapolitan school now in fashion,the Attolini-Rubinacci soft school).

The simple reason for which Naples is ourday so linked with bespoke more that others Italian cities is that Naples is a city with a bad economy,so the ancient works like tailor have remained in good number compared to Rome,Milan,Florence,Turin or others (more renowed until 80s or so).

Another reason is that before the internet publicity to the Neapolitan tailors and tailoring,bespoke in Naples was very,very affordable.

Now,with all talk of spalla camicia,manica a mappina and other,many crafty cheap tailors have jumped on the wagon,and here the "Ancient tailorship of grandfather Ciro from 1890",2500 euros for bespoke (when few years ago the price was 500 euros).

More i have the impression that a very famous Neapolitan bespoke firm have different cutters for different customers....we said that the rich and not famous guy that want a suit from the note firm,but is not a conoisseur, have a not first rate cutter and a job less accurate (but his suit have the magic label).

Said that i'm very happy with my  clevers,honest and affordable Sicilian tailors.


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#27 greger

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 07:27 PM

It seems it would have to be a costume. It's just to bad to be otherwise.

Carpu65, what is it you like about Sicilian tailors?

Some tailors charge a lot for the lack of bells and whistles. Not only in Italy, but elsewhere, too. So many customers don't know how to value craftsmanship and artistic ability. Style (art) can easily be ruined by somebody who lacks artistic ability. Some styles can we really call them styles at all, because they really are not art to begin with?

Edited by greger, 23 June 2015 - 07:28 PM.


#28 Terri

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 08:31 PM

It seems it would have to be a costume. It's just to bad to be otherwise


ouch!

Actually, after some of the disasters and badly fit suits I have seen posted from highly regarded bespoke houses, I know for sure that we costumers actually have pretty high standards.
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#29 jukes

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 08:55 PM

Good theatrical tailors do not get the credit they deserve, i would like to see some of the so called experts cut and make up some of the garments they have to deal with.

 

Sticking to a "house" style or the same cut becomes rather repetitive, which should lead to perfection, yet as we have seen countless times, the fit and make up leave a lot to be desired.



#30 carpu65

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 12:34 AM

It seems it would have to be a costume. It's just to bad to be otherwise.

Carpu65, what is it you like about Sicilian tailors?

 

 

For the first the Sicilian coat is more structured compared to the coat of Neapolitan soft school,and i like this.

The shoulders are natural with a  thin layer of wadding and the front has a soft canvas.

Darts are not extended, but only until the pockets.

Chest is clean and waist is marked with  a gentle suppression.

Is a style not dissimilar to North Italy tailoring,also because many north Italian tailors are from Sicily.

Prices are affordable (many tailors are officially withdrawn...but in home....)

The only problem is that are not replacement,and tailors are around to 60 years old (but they work until very late age).

I love the relationship with the customer,the lack of arrogance,the availability,the kindness and...let's face..a sort of reverence old style for the customer (especially old good customer).

 

 
 

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#31 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 12:54 AM

There are still a few old Italian tailors in Adelaide, South Australia.

 

I don't know a great deal about their general origin, but many folk came to Adelaide from Benevento or Calabria.

 

Otherwise we have many Vietnamese tailors, I don't like their work so much, it's scrappy and badly finished, non-natural fibres.

 

I wish I knew more of the local Italian Tailors to tell you about them.


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Found on a beach picked up and you held so close


#32 greger

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 05:30 AM

Terri, there are reasons for making a garment look terrible. In that sense a costume. Sometimes they are over exaggerated. A sense of humor thrown in. There are many kinds of perfection.

#33 Schneidergott

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 06:51 AM

Terri, there are reasons for making a garment look terrible. In that sense a costume. Sometimes they are over exaggerated. A sense of humor thrown in. There are many kinds of perfection.

 

Are we back to Wabi-Sabi again? What reasons could possibly exist to make a garment (that has been paid for) look terrible?

Good craftsmen take pride in their work, so they won't deliberately make a poor garment, since it could hurt their reputation.


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#34 Terri

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 08:56 AM

Wabi sabi! That's how I will describe a suit I am not happy with to the designer!

#35 greger

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 09:01 AM

It seems to me the coat was deliberately made a mess.

#36 jukes

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 02:31 PM

It seems to me the coat was deliberately made a mess.

 

For what reason ? why would someone mislead a client to pay top dollar for goods that do not reflect the price and then try to justify it by saying that the work was carried out by an "expert" who basically could not be bothered. Sounds like the meaning of "Sprezzatura" is a capable person who cant be bothered.

On the other end of the scale we have tailors like Frank Shattuck who will take as long as it takes to pay attention to the details, due to the pride he has in his peers and profession.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Jeffery Diduch, Menefreghismo, Neapolitan Tailoring, sloppy work

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