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Trouser Fitting: Seat Seam Pulls into the Gap

Trouser Fitting Seat Seam

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#1 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 07:53 PM

Seat seam is pulling into the gap:

 

 

Abb%201%20Seite%2032_zpsvlnkxwux.jpg

 

Image1: because of an erect posture that wasn’t considered in cutting, the undersides are showing a surplus length and the seat seam is pulling in the gap as a consequence of a too short rise of the topsides.

 

The Origin of the Error:

 

The error shown is all too commonly seen.  The undersides have too much length in the gluteal area, piling up below the waist seam and unpleasantly pull the seat seam forward into the gap area.

 

A perfunctory view will cause some colleagues to assume, the undersides just have a bit too much length for comfort, which gets more obvious because of the erect posture and can be removed by widening the crotch point.

 

This view is quite right. The customer’s posture, which is slightly erect, and the underdeveloped buttocks were not regarded sufficiently when cutting.  Otherwise cutting and assembling would have been executed completely differently.

 

But it’s easy to recognise this fault on a finished pair of trousers.  It’s much more difficult to recognize the customers posture, waist-, hip-, and leg form before cutting and assembling, and taking it into account.  Additionally, some basic considerations concerning the trousers have to be discussed and decided with the customer:

 

For waistband trousers it has to be regarded whether:

 

a) it will be worn exclusively with a belt,

b) suspenders should be used additionally and the belt is just for embellishment,

c) the customer prefers only good looking but less comfortable “just for standing” trousers,

d) or if he prefers a trouser that is comfortable while sitting, but will show some length when walking or standing.

 

The customer has an erect posture and a slightly forward hip.  Using a normal pattern template the pattern should have been altered according to the sketch. In this case probably a pattern template with a crooked seat angle was used causing the additional length in the gluteal region.

 

In the waist area the trousers are “blocked”.* That is to say, the seat seam, the darts and the side seams were not drawn hollow enough for the customer’s waist form, which causes the additional length to pile up below the waist seam.

 

Looking at the front view we could diagnose, that the topside is lacking length at its centre and the trousers are pulled up towards the front.

 

 

The Alterations:

 

The normal topside pattern is slashed at half the rise from the fly line, almost to the side seam and hinged open for 1— 1.5 cm at L1-L2. This raises the waistline at B1 for the same amount and makes the fly line go inward moderately at B1 at the same time. Thus the trousers get the necessary length for (across) the trunk area. (for the rise?).

The undersides must be shorter at the seat seam.  That’s why the pattern gets folded horizontally at halve the rise for 2— 3 cm at G1-G2, or gets slashed and put on top of each other for the same amount. The technical alterations can be seen in the alteration sketch:

 

a) the underside is pivoted as a whole,

b) the seat seam is straighter towards the top and has to be widened therefore in a finished pair of trousers (when altering a finished pair of trousers),

c) at the same time the undersides is shorter at B3,

d) to keep the correct waist width the side seam must be decreased gradually for the same amount at B6 and

e) the seat seam is to be drawn a bit concave towards the top according to the body form,

f) the crotch point must be widened for 2 cm at S3 to achieve the correct diameter.

 

Abb%202%20u%203%20Seite%2032_zpsvhamdd6v

 

Image 2; The topsides need more length;

the normal pattern is therefore “blocked” at the half rise.*

Image 3; To the normal pattern of the undersides,

the seat seam is reduced by 2—3 cm at half the seat height, so the undersides are straighter. 

The topsides and undersides certainly require sufficient ironwork.

 

In a finished pair of trousers, the aim is to do the alterations as quickly and simply as possible yet at the same time achieving correct results:

 

There must be at least some inlay at the seat seam, because it needs widening there for 2— 3 cm.  The waistline is shortened at B3 and decreased at B6.

 

These trousers also lack sufficient iron work, which cannot be avoided in trousers with narrow legs, even when they are cut correctly.

 

For the prominent calves, the undersides need sufficient ironwork at the inseam and the side seam; the seat seam must be stretched heavily as well.

 

 

 

 

*   With thanks to Schneidergott for this explanation.

 

"Abgesperrt" means "blocked" in older texts. In this particular case the waistband doesn't allow the cloth/back trouser to go up, so everything is pushed downwards.

"Gesperrt" or "sperren" of a pattern means "to open (-ed up)".

"Kneifen" for that matter means the opposite, you close/ overlap a part of a pattern.

 

 

 

 

WAuml10014.jpg


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 25 June 2015 - 09:52 AM.

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#2 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 08:39 PM

I thank peterle for doing the bulk of this translation and Schneidergott for his insight into a tailoring term that was unknown to us.


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#3 greger

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 03:25 AM

Thanks again, guys, for another translation. When these are finished perhaps someone will put them together as a pdf.
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#4 ChiTownTailor

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 08:35 AM

Thanks again, guys, for another translation. When these are finished perhaps someone will put them together as a pdf.

Great idea!
-There might be a lot of tweed merchants out there making a bodger, but I'm sure not one of them. I'd rather be kicking my heels than making a pork on the mangle. No crushed beetles to be found here!

#5 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:54 AM

And thanks to HenryHall for spotting 'festlegen' as 'decided'.

 

The correction has been made.


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#6 tombennett

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 10:04 AM

If links are passed to me, I would be happy to compile a pdf of all these excellent translations.



#7 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 01:39 PM

Hi Tom,

 

I have only posted these articles as you see.

 

If you wish to copy them and convert them to a pdf that would be ok.  

 

The image files are stored in photobucket and can be downloaded just like SG's originals.


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#8 tombennett

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 07:04 PM

I'll get on with it, it's not as if I haven't the time.  I'm always looking for things to occupy my mind, and time.  :thumbsup:


Edited by tombennett, 25 June 2015 - 08:04 PM.


#9 tombennett

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 09:28 PM

I've found four articles.  Is that correct, and are there anymore?

 

tom.



#10 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 10:16 PM

Hang on Tom there is one more, give us a little time :)


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#11 tombennett

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 11:00 PM

No worries m'dear. I'm not going to rush, I pace all my tasks as part of my pain management programme.



#12 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 25 June 2015 - 11:31 PM

The fifth and final is now posted.


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#13 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 12:36 AM

Back to topic,

 

Here is another view of the term abgesperrt, or gesperrt or sperrt, from a post by Sator about waistcoats, again it is referring to opening a large dart in a paper pattern,

 

Geneigt001.jpg

 

 

in the following forum discussion:

 

http://www.cutterand...pic=1155&page=2


Edited by Schneiderfrei, 26 June 2015 - 12:38 AM.

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#14 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 03:49 AM

I have asked Schneidergott where these pages came from.

 

He has said they came from an old Rundschau book called "Wir Ändern".

 

He says there is an updated version on the Mueller website called: Passformfehler beheben

 

http://muellersohn.c...mfehler-beheben

 

:)


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