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#91 Rory Duffy

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:21 AM

Today, with 9oz fabric, when you close the darts in the canvas, they must be first closed by hand with an Endel-stitch, so the edges will be drawn exactly together without gap. Then they will be covered with a thin lining bias stripe and zig-zaged with very thin overlook thread. This has to be done like a clock maker so fine. The closed darts have as good as nothing in thickness then and still you have to baste them under the chest dart to hide them. If you don't do that, you might see those darts in sight light as a very small bulge line, when you work with 9oz fabric.

 

If you make coats like Rory with 20oz carpet fabric, seen in his movies, it doesn’t matter how bad you close those darts. You can even overlap the edges, like in the old potato sack days, they will not be seen, when they basted under the chest dart.

 

Construction like, why should the canvas dart not be under the chest dart? I found it always a mystery to set the canvas dart 2cm aside from the chest dart. Those tailors said to bring the fullness on the side or more to the front because they didn't understand to place the chest dart at the right place and they didn't understand to cut the canvas supporting the fronts which is still very difficult to manage. I also felt into those mystery traps and had to believe first what the old masters had published, but I think they didn't even know what they did, continued repeating many mistakes of the old masters. You can make a mistake 100 years long, and still it will remain a mistake.

 

In order to understand the difference between crocked and straight, there is a thread in the forum, where it is exactly explained. Why should someone cut a modern coat crooked? Is it nice today to have all the fullness in the front and at the arm skye there is nothing. All the shape of the coat has to be brought in by shrinking the front edges and bridle then, at least the old masters cut a huge lapel dart to help it, plus they used 20oz carpet fabric, which were easily to be shrunk. The straight cut was invented to bring half of the fullness from the front edges back to the armhole, so there was shrinking at the armhole and some shrinking in the bridle. The shrinking in the bridle can be eliminated by using a small lapel dart, but then the canvas has to support the lapel dart as well and I haven't seen published a canvas cut that will support the lapel dart. Only the Schneiderhandwerk gave a hint, how to solve that problem accurate. To cut a canvas correct is absolutely a science and I would advise Werner Losberg to follow first.

 

I take offensive to your statement "If you make coats like Rory with 20oz carpet fabric, seen in his movies, it doesn’t matter how bad you close those darts".

It is not a 20oz carpet fabric, the cloth is from Aristan weight 320 gr/mtl 100% merino wool, cloth number A870/ 15, contact James Sheed, jamessheed@kempandhewitt.com for a sample.

 

I doubt you are a sewing tailor anyways just another novice sitting around reading books and think you are of the same league. 

 

I don't make German coat, I make British, being Irish and training on Savile row thats what I have been exposed to. Am not saying their work and ideas doesn't have merit, its just not my way of making.

 

When you produce your video series on how you think a coat should be made, you can prove to the world why your system is better. Aside from that it would seem you are full of hot air.


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#92 Rory Duffy

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:27 AM

The heaviest cloth I offer is an 18oz overcoating from Harrisons for making overcoats not sports coats.
Did make a personal coat for Richard Anderson in 2010 from a 17oz cloth he had provided, it was my first and only experience of making a suit jacket from a heavy wool. 
While training and coat making at Henry Pooles I made up coats between 8oz - 12oz cloths, usually 10oz.
 
I don't know anyone who would buy or wear a 20oz sports coat!

Edited by Rory Duffy, 09 February 2014 - 08:28 AM.

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#93 Schneidergott

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:04 PM

Re: front chest dart placement.

In the olden days materials (cloth and canvas alike) were much heavier and thicker, so I guess they moved the canvas dart to avoid massive thickness at the chest dart. But I haven't seen it mentioned after 1960, I only know the modern version, where the darts ly on top of each other. However, I don't make the canvas edges overlap. I use a wide but tight zig-zag stitch and finish it off (cover it) with a very thin woven fusible.

 

And excuse our very own DZ, he's like the East-German dachshund, yapping at everything and everyone he doesn't know...  :spiteful: He does that quite often, so we don't care any more.


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#94 Sator

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 11:51 PM

And excuse our very own DZ, he's like the East-German dachshund, yapping at everything and everyone he doesn't know...  :spiteful: He does that quite often, so we don't care any more.

 

:LMAO:



#95 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:11 AM



Re: front chest dart placement.

In the olden days materials (cloth and canvas alike) were much heavier and thicker, so I guess they moved the canvas dart to avoid massive thickness at the chest dart. But I haven't seen it mentioned after 1960, I only know the modern version, where the darts ly on top of each other. However, I don't make the canvas edges overlap. I use a wide but tight zig-zag stitch and finish it off (cover it) with a very thin woven fusible.

 

And excuse our very own DZ, he's like the East-German dachshund, yapping at everything and everyone he doesn't know...  :spiteful: He does that quite often, so we don't care any more.

 

LOL, let me have my fun.

 

In East Germany we produced carped suits with carpet canvas until 1989, but SG that is right, when both materials are so thick, you cannot lay both darts on top of each other. (20oz Panzerjacken for Alaska and Sibiria. :puppeh: )

 

Anyway, with modern 9oz fabric, using 160g front canvas, you have to "Endel" the edges of the canvas darts together, it has to be made so accurate, just zig-zag them freehand together works by chance only. Endel stitch is explained in the forum somwhere. I am sure the "Endel" stich is even English heritage, I don't know the translation.

 

Picture001_zps00bf30d7.jpg

 

Picture009_zps46d2a2e2.jpg


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#96 Rory Duffy

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:38 AM

 

However, I don't make the canvas edges overlap. I use a wide but tight zig-zag stitch and finish it off (cover it) with a very thin woven fusible.

 

 

 

That's sounds very similar to the way I make mine bar the fusing. I cut out the dart and butt the edges and sew a piece of light cotton on the inside to help secure it closed.
The scye dart I over lap, it's a small dart both in length and the wedge. I cover the dart on the cloth side with cotton so it doesn't track onto the cloth.
This dart is under too much presser to be cut out, so overlapping is the best method I feel.
The first coat I did this in I had to replace the canvases because the dart burst out before final fitting.


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#97 Rory Duffy

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:41 AM

Was referring to Schneidergott method, first paragraph of the last message.
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#98 Rory Duffy

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:47 AM

DZ,
Are the images of complete canvases?
Is the haircloth left bare on the inside or do you then cover it with needle punch or domette.

The position and style of canvas looks similar to the method my former master in Ireland uses.

Without the edges of the hair coat being covered, isn't there a chance that the needles with poke the wearer?
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#99 Schneidergott

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 05:01 AM

I tried making the stitching on the side of the canvas which is facing towards the cloth less noticeable... So instead of having the long stitches on said side they are now on the inner side and will sink into whatever one is using to cover the hair cloth/ Fachroßhaar.

 

Some say that the dart in the armhole is obsolete, but I find it to be very good to get a clean fit there. And I let the edges overlap, too, and use a zig-zag stitch, again. Same with those of the chest piece/ Plack.


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#100 Prakash Parmar

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 04:59 PM

hi all, am not able to view the images in this string. Please advise



#101 greger

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:51 AM

. I also put a hell of a lot more fullness in the haircloth and domette, creating a swelled chest in my crooked coats.

 

My grandad definitely liked crooked coats. Even for "sunken" chest guys. Flat is so boring. Not saying that there are not reasons for straight cuts,  but a crooked coat can have so much more in them. They are the master pieces from an artist view point. 



#102 greger

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 03:51 AM

 

 

Delete this please. 


Edited by greger, 15 August 2017 - 04:04 AM.


#103 greger

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:02 AM

hi all, am not able to view the images in this string. Please advise

 

The sites that held the pictures out of the blue started charging money. There are some other threads discussing this problem. 


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