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Help with fitting men's shirt muslin


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#127 peterle

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 12:17 AM

The information is spread throughout all the PDFs.

 

A basic would be Page 143 following in the 69-70_gross.pdf. It informs about the new approach of a unisex pattern system ("Einheitliche Schnitttechnik..."') and shows the development of a women´s and a men´s jacket parallely ( "Fuer vielseitige Fachleute...").


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#128 benjaminh

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 12:45 PM

Don´t forget you scooped out the back armhole.

 

I'm just incorporating the changes into the paper pattern tonight, and I can't remember scooping out the back armhole. I know I deepend the entire armhole (back and front) by 1/2", but I don't recall scooping out the back armhole alone? After brief skim over this topic, I still haven't come up with that. Could you refresh my memory?



#129 Schneiderfrei

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 05:19 PM

Thank's peterle, I suspected this would be the case.  But thanks for that early section and reference terminology.

 

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#130 peterle

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 06:25 PM

I was talking about the armscye alterations of post#92. I thought you just deepened the back armhole (my post #88).



#131 benjaminh

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 09:36 AM

I was talking about the armscye alterations of post#92. I thought you just deepened the back armhole (my post #88).

 

OK, somehow I slipped up here and deepend the entire armhole. Do you think the armhole is good as is (front and back dropped) or should I modify it to only back dropped?



#132 peterle

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 07:24 PM

It seems ok like it is.



#133 benjaminh

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 01:53 PM

Great. When I shift the fronts 6mm toward the center, how do I adjust the armhole? Do I trim off material on the back armhole, or add more to the front armhole?



#134 peterle

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:30 PM

To shift the fronts add 6mm at the back neck hole and crop it at the  yoke armhole. The yoke front seam should have the same length as before.



#135 benjaminh

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 06:11 AM

OK, here are some pictures of the attached sleeve. Obviously, it'll need some modifications. It seems to have a tendency to twist, and there seems to be just too much material there. 

 

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#136 peterle

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 01:44 AM

I think we can get it a bit better. A profil pic would help and you have to pin the top of the front seam closed. the sleeve pulls it away.

 

First I have to be sure:

Did you take the measurments for the sleeve from the altered paper pattern?

Did you take all the measurements from the pure sewing line? (one SA from the edge inwards, not measureing the crossing seam allowances?)

Did you sew in the sleeve with the sleeve seam meeting the sides seam and point K at the right point and is it in the armhole it belongs to?

 

Please measure the sleeve crown seam and the corresponding scye seam. They should be equal, may be the sleeve avery small amount longer.

 

Your back sleeve seam is a tad longer than the front one. They should match, so make the back one longer for the necessary amount.



#137 benjaminh

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:03 AM

I think we can get it a bit better. A profil pic would help and you have to pin the top of the front seam closed. the sleeve pulls it away.

 

First I have to be sure:

Did you take the measurments for the sleeve from the altered paper pattern?

Did you take all the measurements from the pure sewing line? (one SA from the edge inwards, not measureing the crossing seam allowances?)

Did you sew in the sleeve with the sleeve seam meeting the sides seam and point K at the right point and is it in the armhole it belongs to?

 

Please measure the sleeve crown seam and the corresponding scye seam. They should be equal, may be the sleeve avery small amount longer.

 

Your back sleeve seam is a tad longer than the front one. They should match, so make the back one longer for the necessary amount.

 

Yes, the measurements are from the altered paper pattern (prior to shifting the yoke seam forward, as per your directions), taking care to eliminate all SAs.

I sewed the sleeve in with K at the right point as I thought that was most important, but the sleeve seam ended up being about 2cm away from the side seam, on the front side.

 

The body armhole, at seamline, is 51cm, and the sleeve cap is 52cm long. 

 

With regards to the sleeve seams being unequal, how do I fix this. If I increased the length of one, line P7-P6 would be on an angle. Is this what I should do?



#138 peterle

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:09 AM

I see.

 

I don´t understand why one sleeve seam is shorter than the other. Is it just the pic? On the pic it seems m is in the middle between U6 and U7 and P is in the middle of P6 and P7. How big is the difference?

 

Anyhow It shouldn´t by a problem when P6-P7 is on an angle.

 

Are You sure the sleeve is in the right armhole? (you wouldn´t be the first messing up the sides; don´t ask how I know...)

 

Resew the sleeve, matching the seams also. Maybe it is a good idea to you measure 12cm from U6 and U7 along the cap line  and make a mark. Do the same in the scye starting at the sides seam and match the markings when you sew.

 

In my eyes the sleeve is a bit too wide for such a tight shirt. To make it a bit slimmmer you could curve the sleeve seams inwards instead of having them straight. A hollowing of 1,5-2cm should be enough.



#139 benjaminh

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 04:59 AM

I don´t understand why one sleeve seam is shorter than the other. Is it just the pic? On the pic it seems m is in the middle between U6 and U7 and P is in the middle of P6 and P7. How big is the difference?

 

I actually don't know why this happened myself. Only thing I can think of is that I either slipped when tracing the pattern on the cloth, or that I was stretching on side more than the other while sewing. I had thought that it was because the line K-U7 is slightly longer than K-U6, which would make line U7-P7 slightly longer, but I just measured and the difference is negligible (only a couple of mm). Obviously it was my cutting/sewing error, so I'll leave P6-P7 as is. 

 

 

 

 

I'll check when I'm resewing the sleeve to make sure I'm sewing it on the right side, but I'm pretty positive I did. I specifically marked the sleeve to prevent this error.

 

 

In my eyes the sleeve is a bit too wide for such a tight shirt. To make it a bit slimmmer you could curve the sleeve seams inwards instead of having them straight. A hollowing of 1,5-2cm should be enough.

 

I completely agree; the sleeve definitely doesn't fit the style of the shirt. I'll give the hollowing a try when I resew...



#140 benjaminh

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:16 PM

Here are some updated photo's with a new sleeve attached. I curved in the sleeve seams, and also added the pleats in at the wrist, as per draft instructions. This time the side and sleeve seams are lined up, and point K is at the proper point. These modifications made a drastic improvement to the fit. There is still a twist to the sleeve; I'm not sure whether
 

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#141 peterle

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 05:26 PM

Please pin the neckhole closed.

 

The sleeve width is better now.

 

how long is the cap height K-m in your pattern?


Edited by peterle, 01 April 2018 - 05:31 PM.

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#142 posaune

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 05:37 PM

(I don't think you can use that sleeve draft. Your cap is in my opinion not high enough for such a tight armhole and shirt)

Please give us a pic from your pattern. Lay the parts so that the armhole closes at side seam and mark the shoulderpoint at the yoke (yoke to the back pattern). Lay the sleeve pattern so that it's armhole points are touching the bust line. Then Peterle can see the form of your armhole and check the cap height.

lg

posaune

shirt drafts are for a relaxed fit


Edited by posaune, 01 April 2018 - 05:38 PM.

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#143 peterle

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 12:19 AM

To dive deeper in cap and sleeve shaping please read this thread by Posaune:

http://movsd.com/Bes...php?topic=453.0

 

You can also see a pic  of how to place your pattern pieces to judge the sleeve cap.

It also shows that the unicut cap height of half the armhole hight is too shallow.



#144 benjaminh

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 03:00 AM

Here are some pictures of the pattern, one with, the other without the sleeve draft. 

 

 

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Currently, the sleeve cap height (m-K) is 11cm. If I was to go with posaune's 83% recommendation, it should be 18.3cm. 

 

Should I abandon this sleeve draft (at least the cap), and go with posaune's drafting method?






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