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Pea and Duffle Coats


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#1 pvpatty

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:03 PM

Didn't want to clog up the other thread:

QUOTE (jeeves @ Apr 23 2009, 01:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is beginning to veer quite some way from the original topic of this thread but I wonder if there is any relationship between these pea coats and the duffle coat. It's possible the duffle coat evolved from the pea coat.


Both are of military origin I believe. I would guess that the Pea coat preceded the Duffle.

Wikipedia states:

QUOTE
The duffle coat owes its popularity to the British Royal Navy, who issued a camel-coloured variant of it as an item of warm clothing during World War I. The design of the coat was modified slightly and widely issued during World War II. Field Marshal Montgomery was a famous wearer of the coat[1], as a means of identifying himself with his troops. Large stocks of post-war military surplus coats available at reasonable prices to the general public meant that these coats became a ubiquitous and popular item of clothing in the 1950s and 1960s. The British firm Gloverall purchased surplus military supply of coats after World War II and in 1954 started producing their own version of the duffle coat and continue to do so today. Another Navy design coat that gained popularity among the general public is the Pea coat.

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#2 Sator

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 11:51 PM

Sometimes I can be left aghast at how many names there are for the same garment. So far we've found: reefer jacket, pea jacket/coat, P-coat, pilot coat and duffle coat! Thinking.gif
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#3 jefferyd

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 12:04 AM

QUOTE (Sator @ Apr 23 2009, 11:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sometimes I can be left aghast at how many names there are for the same garment. So far we've found: reefer jacket, pea jacket/coat, P-coat, pilot coat and duffle coat! Thinking.gif


I remember reading something about a possible Dutch association, something about a Pij coat, I think. Is it possible that Holland has given us the duffle coat AND drape? smile.gif

#4 Sator

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 12:08 AM

Was the Pij coat the source of the drape cut? unknw.gif
Gustav Mahler (1860-1911): "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche."

"Tradition is about passing on the flame, and not the worshipping of ashes"

#5 jefferyd

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 12:18 AM

No, but Scholte apparently was, and he was Dutch....

#6 NJS

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 12:28 AM

Just come across another term for drape too - 'British blade' - anyone heard of that before?
<b></b>NJS<b></b>

#7 Mr. Sandstad

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 09:51 AM

QUOTE (jefferyd @ Apr 23 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I remember reading something about a possible Dutch association, something about a Pij coat, I think. Is it possible that Holland has given us the duffle coat AND drape? smile.gif


In a good norwegian dictionary, the norwegian term by the by is "pjekkert", it is said that the word originates from new german Piejäcker(t); composed of pije/pee and jackett.


#8 NJS

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 10:56 AM

The RN No 1 Dress is called 'Reefer Uniform', suggesting that, these days, the reefer is the main body coat rather than an outer coat.
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#9 Chris Kavanaugh

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 01:02 PM

A look at period photographs or illustrations will show duffle type coats worn by the ill fated

Franklin expedition and Shakleton's crew. The large toggles on jute or leather are easier to

fasten with mittened or cold hands: The hood also greater protecting the head from stinging ice.

The one shortcoming of the postwar Gloverall is a cheaper to make 'pancake hood' vs the issue

with a deeper back to trap warm air and facilitate the hood moving in synch with the head.

#10 jeeves

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Posted 24 April 2009 - 01:42 PM

QUOTE (pvpatty @ Apr 23 2009, 07:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Both are of military origin I believe. I would guess that the Pea coat preceded the Duffle.

That is what I thought. I wonder if there is an evolution beyond them both being heavy fabric and wooden toggles. It would be logical to put a hood on the pea coat for cold weather use but I'm not sure if there is any evidence to support this.


#11 NOBD

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:07 PM

QUOTE (jefferyd @ Apr 23 2009, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I remember reading something about a possible Dutch association, something about a Pij coat, I think. Is it possible that Holland has given us the duffle coat AND drape? smile.gif

Belgium has given us the duffle coat:

duffle coat Refers to a style of sporty, single-breasted overcoat originally made from a single layer of coarse, heavy wool known as duffel. Beloved first by sailors working along the coast of Belgium, then by the British forces in World Wars I and II, then by college students, then by the world, the duffle is distinguished by patch pockets, a pancake hood, toggle closures, and an extra layer of cloth across the shoulder. It is generally knee-length or shorter. In the British regulation-issue version, it sported wooden toggles attached via jute-rope cording and a larger bucket hood, while its patch pockets had no flaps. The brand most associated with the style is Gloverall. Synonyms: toggle coat, Montgomery coat.

duffel 1. A type of coarse, heavy fabric, originally associated by the region of that name in Belgium, near Antwerp. Today, the fabric is more commonly called duffel, whilte the coat associated with it is more commonly spelled duffle. 2. Slang for a duffel of duffle coat.


I think the peacoat is a different animal, but there is a Dutch connection (sorry for quoting myself):

QUOTE (NOBD @ Aug 20 2009, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
According to The Fairchild Encyclopedia of Menswear 'pea' in peacoat is an English corruption of the Dutch word 'pij'*. A 'pij' is a piece of clothing made from a rough wool cloth. Unfortunately, the origin of the word 'pij' is unknown. Btw: a pea in Dutch is an 'erwt'.

*) The Dutch word for peacoat is 'pij-jekker'; 'jekker' is the same as English 'jacket'. Nobody uses the word pij-jekker, though. We also call it peacoat.


peacoat A style of double-breasted outerwear originally worn by sailors. The classic of this type is a hip-length, double-breasted style, with a large collar and wide lapels that fastened with six or eight large, flat buttons etched with an anchor emblem. It has two symmetrical handwarmer pockets placed as vertical slits on either side of its front, and is made of coarse, heavy wool in navy blue. The "pea" in its name is an English corruption of "pij", the Dutch name for the type of rough cloth associated with the original jackets. Synonyms: bridge coat (especially for a slightly longer version); pea jacket; pilot coat, reefer (especially for a more tailored style that might be worn by a naval officer).

(Text in blue: The Fairchild Encyclopedia of Menswear.)



#12 couch

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 08:58 AM

QUOTE (NJS @ Apr 23 2009, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just come across another term for drape too - 'British blade' - anyone heard of that before?


NJS, I'm pretty sure that one of Etutee's numbered series of articles based on Esquire/Apparel Arts, posted on the London Lounge, quotes discussion of this term. My recollection is that it was a U.S. name for a slightly exaggerated version of the original (a la Scholte) drape cut, one which had a brief vogue of a couple of years in the mid-late '30s and was already being deprecated by the Apparel Arts writers. It had more extended shoulders and quite a full back tapering to a nipped waist.




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