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The Best of the 1960s


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#73 Schneidergott

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 04:32 PM

That sketch was made and published in 1959.

I have been wondering about the only significant difference to be seen between the Panaro system and that of Ciraci.

Both books were published in the 60's, but yet the Ciraci cut (from 1965) looks a bit more modern to me. For comparison:

Panaro (book is 8th edition, according to the seller published in the 60's. Most of the book consists of elements from previous editions):

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Ciraci (the patterns show a different shape around the hips):

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Thanks to the website http://www.papottoilsarto.it/ I found pictures of a few of the big names in Italian tailoring. Most of them (the b&w ones) were taken in 1973:

Il famoso indossatore Carlo di Maggio:

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Ciro Giuliani:

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Domenico Caraceni (?):

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Commendatore Risicato (on the right):

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And finally the author of the book Il tagliatore di abiti, Ciraci:

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#74 carpu65

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 01:02 PM

Domenico Caraceni die in 1940.

#75 Schneidergott

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:07 PM

Domenico Caraceni die in 1940.



The comment to that photo was:

Roma 24-02-1973

Papotto il Sarto con il maestro Caracemi (uno dei più grandi sarti di tutti i tempi)


That's why I put the ? behind the name! So this must be one of Domenico's or Galliano's sons?

Unless there is a famous tailor called Caracemi... :Thinking:

Pirri was more structured than many Napolitan tailors,but soft if compare him to Caraceni.
His coats were very comfortables without make folds like,for exemple,those of Rubinacci-Attolini.


Had to think about this a bit. Mario claims in that interview that their suits are extremely soft, so how can Pirri have made even softer coats? Or perhaps by "morbido" he meant "flexible"?

No don't worry, I'm not asking you to dissect your Pirri coats...

I was watching "La dolce vita" the other day. Is it known who made the Napoli style suit for Marcello Mastroiani?
It has quite a few fit issues. Apart from that and the fact that the shoulders are a bit wider, that white coat has relatively clean lines without those bulging chests we see from quite a few big Napolitan houses.

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#76 Schneidergott

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 08:15 PM

DB suits and coats have almost vanished in Germany. For the younger customer you'll find those terrible slim-fit suits and for the older ones the regular RTW styles with deep armholes.
There are only a few blazer/ reefer style DB jackets for sale, but the vast majority is SB.
One of the reasons may be the swollen bellies of many German men, which make the front of a DB stand away from the trousers. And of course that a DB is trickier to adjust to different shapes and sizes.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#77 carpu65

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 02:05 AM

The comment to that photo was:

That's why I put the ? behind the name! So this must be one of Domenico's or Galliano's sons?

Unless there is a famous tailor called Caracemi... :Thinking:



I think Agostino Caraceni (Brother of Domenico and father of Mario,tailor in Paris and after in Milan).



Had to think about this a bit. Mario claims in that interview that their suits are extremely soft, so how can Pirri have made even softer coats? Or perhaps by "morbido" he meant "flexible"?

No don't worry, I'm not asking you to dissect your Pirri coats...


I have many Pirri coat (cut for my father) and are very soft and confortables.
The shoulder are not bulk like Caraceni,and Pirri coats do not folds like many Napolitan coats.
The inside seems very few padded.
Maybe the secret was in the Pirri cut system.

I was watching "La dolce vita" the other day. Is it known who made the Napoli style suit for Marcello Mastroiani?
It has quite a few fit issues. Apart from that and the fact that the shoulders are a bit wider, that white coat has relatively clean lines without those bulging chests we see from quite a few big Napolitan houses.


The tailor of Mastroianni for "La dolce vita" (and in his real life) was the Roman Zenobi.
Ironically Zenobi (that was native of Trieste)make the "Napolitans" suits that Mastroianni wear in "Matrimonio all'Italiana" (1964).

Edited by carpu65, 05 July 2010 - 02:07 AM.


#78 Schneidergott

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 04:42 AM

I think Agostino Caraceni (Brother of Domenico and father of Mario,tailor in Paris and after in Milan).





I have many Pirri coat (cut for my father) and are very soft and confortables.
The shoulder are not bulk like Caraceni,and Pirri coats do not folds like many Napolitan coats.
The inside seems very few padded.
Maybe the secret was in the Pirri cut system.



The tailor of Mastroianni for "La dolce vita" (and in his real life) was the Roman Zenobi.
Ironically Zenobi (that was native of Trieste)make the "Napolitans" suits that Mastroianni wear in "Matrimonio all'Italiana" (1964).


I, too, think that a good cut does not necessary need to have a lot of support in the form of several layers of canvas.

I was watching "Matrimonio all'italiana" the other evening and was surprised how well Marcello's suits turned out. He started to have a round back early and yet there is a decent drape, while other tailors can't get any drape at all (although they call themselves drape tailors):

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This one would be seen as the one with all the hallmarks of a true Neapolitan coat :Big Grin: :

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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#79 Schneidergott

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:03 AM

A little clip from "Divorzio all'italiana" with Marcello Mastroiani.
This is likely one of the best suits I have seen for a long time. Sure beats any "drape" suits of the 30's and 40's!



I kept the whole sequence, so you'll get the complete (though short) tour of the essence of "Italianism". Seriously, can a film be more "Italian" than this one?

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#80 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:41 AM

I had a picture here from 'Schneiderhandwerk', had to remove it as I shift around in photo bucket and the links don't fit anymore.
The edit function here only works 24hours long.

Edited by Der Zuschneider, 19 July 2010 - 05:30 AM.

www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#81 Sator

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 04:08 PM

The edit function here only works 24hours long.


I've just changed the system settings so you can edit your posts for up to 1 week afterwards. I hope that helps! :)

#82 carpu65

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 01:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA4zc03bx7o

Seriously, can a film be more "Italian" than this one?

Well,"Sicilian".
In early 60s Romans,tuscans,lombards,venetians was a little different,with others defects. :Whistle:
Is funny that for our foreign friends all Italians are identical. ;)

#83 Schneidergott

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:47 AM

Well,"Sicilian".
In early 60s Romans,tuscans,lombards,venetians was a little different,with others defects. :Whistle:
Is funny that for our foreign friends all Italians are identical. ;)


Same happens here in Germany. Most foreigners think that all Germans are like Bavarians. :drinks:

Thank God we are not.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#84 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 05:50 AM

You're not? :spiteful: I seen your Leder-hosen and trachten hidden in the back seat I seen when getting the ham out, and my gawd the size of your bierstein in the drink holder! :drinks:lol
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#85 Schneidergott

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 03:44 AM

Last time I wore Lederhosen I must have been around 5 years old, and I was just following the latest trend for boys of my age!

Speaking of clichés:



and:


"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#86 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 03:25 PM

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Who ever made that suit is a genius. Whoever criticize it I feel sorry and he should show in pictures how he does better!

Edited by Der Zuschneider, 26 July 2010 - 09:51 AM.

www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#87 greger

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:50 AM

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That is a nice looking coat. The collar and lapel really take the cake. The sleeve looks messy, and it seems like there should be more waist suppression. The hat really goes with it. The evening sunlight really pops this picture out more than others. 8 buttons in parallel row. Slant pockets which begins at the breast dart. Breast pocket is rather flat, but nice. I really like the collar and lapel.

#88 Schneidergott

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:19 PM

The sleeve looks messy,


Boy, are you picky... What would you say is this (the guy on the left in the image (grey suit)?


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"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#89 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:07 AM

Thank You SG.

Those suits in your picture sell for 3000 here. I bet its an apprentice work.
www.berlinbespokesuits.com

#90 greger

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 11:07 AM

Already sorta answered the question above, but it has disappeared. Is it bad tailoring or did the cleaners ruin the coat? Is it possibly for a rain storm to do that damage and it was never taken care of? Maybe the customer did something. The cutter above talks about having a tune up several months after the coat was made (some of the best tailors like one tune up because coats first made can still be fluid.

The German coat is very nice, But are the sleeves on par with the quality of the rest of the coat?




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