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The Rundschau System for Trousers


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#1 Sator

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:34 PM

Here is the long awaited Rundschau system for cutting trousers. I also have the ladies' system too which will appear in due course. Unfortunately, reading, absorbing and then translating these things is very time consuming.

The measurements:

Posted Image

From left to right:
1. The side seam length (taken down to the top of the heel of the shoe)
2. The inseam length

The following example of trousers with plain fronts are based on the following measures:

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The Measures
Side seam to top of heel = 104cm
Inseam to top of heel = 80/40cm
Waist measure = 82/42cm
Seat measure = 100/50cm
Difference between waist and seat = 16cm
Hem measure = 42/21cm


Abb 530 The Foundations
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L-B start square here
L-K height of knee = 1/2 inseam + 1/10 of full length of inseam (altogether = 48cm)
L-S inseam according to measure = 80cm
L-B side seam according to measure = 104cm
S-G height of seat = 1/10th of half seat (Gw) + 3cm
L-L1 shorten at the hem by ca. 4cm for hem width of 42cm (it is always recommended that the side and leg seams be measured to the top of the heel and recorded in the measurements book. This forms a certain reference point for all trousers including variations according the hem width and taste)
Square upwards joining L1, K, S, G, B

Abb 531 Top Side Width and Centre Crease
Posted Image

B-b move in for place of hips = 2/10th of the difference of seat and waist measures (here 16cm) = 3.2cm

Example:
Seat = 100cm
Waist = minus 80cm
Difference = 16cm
2/10th of 16cm = 3.2cm

b-B1 top side width = 1/4 waist measure (without ease for pleats)
B1- place square vertically to find points g and S1
g-G1 point of fork (right side) = 1/10th of half seat + 1cm
G-G1 Find point M (the centre crease line) the half way point between G-G1
M- square upwards and downwards from point M. The distance between G-M can also be carried over to L1-M2
(For a figure with a more open leg stance the distance of G-M minus 1-2cm is carried over. The opposite is done for a figure with a closed leg stance, when 1-2 cm is added to the distance of G-M).
M2-M extend centreline upwards

Abb 532 Fork and Leg Width

Posted Image
M2-a/b The width of topside is dependent on the width of foot. With a narrow foot, the width of top side is 1/2 hem measure minus 1cm. With wider hems widths, the width of topside is 1/2 foot width - 2cm
a- for the hollow of side seam move in 1cm. Extend the line of construction to G forming K1 at knee level.
b- For the hollow of leg seam move in 1cm, construction line to G1; find K2 at knee height, go upwards to S2, the right fork
g- displace downwards 2cm deeper, line of construction to S2; place square on line of construction and join S1 to n

Abb 533 The Completed Topside without Pleats
Posted Image

b-b1 allowance to waistband to hold on the topside while sewing on the waistband = 1cm
b1-a shape side seam as shown, note the gentle hollowing towards the bottom
b1- raise corner of band edge up by 3/4-1cm. Complete line to M1 with a gradual curve.
B1-S2 Complete the fly edge the right side as shown. Place n about 1cm deeper.
B1-b2 Left fly edge is given an extra 3/4cm so that it hides the seam of the right right fly on the finished trouser.
S2-S3 Addition for the left side = 1.5cm
b2-S3 Fly edge for the left side finished as shown in the diagram
S2-b Leg seam for the right side. Note gradual hollowing
S3-K2 Leg seam for the left side

Abb 534 The Foundations of the Underside
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Lines are drawn across for the bottom of the leg, height of knee, height top of leg seam, height of seat extended outwards on both sides
a/b hem width for the underside = displace 2.5cm each side
K1/K2 knee width for underside = displace 3cm each side
c/d displace each side by 1cm
K3/c line of construction for the side seam
K4/d Line of construction for leg seam
M-m centreline = displace 1cm
Seat breadth = 1/4 seat width + 5cm allowance = 30cm

For trousers without pleats, the width of the waistband on the topside at the level of the hips becomes somewhat narrower, usually something desirable when the pleats are left out)

m-S6 = 1/4 seat breadth (7.5 cm for a seat breadth of 30 cm); see on diagram where it is marked 1/4Gesäßbrt.
S-S5 Standard angle = displace 1.5cm higher
Should the trouser be more crooked and thereby have greater length of seat, then the square is placed at S. If the underside is very straight, the square is placed higher than S5 so that its shortens the seam. The desired angle (straighter/more crooked) can be achieved by altering the placement of the square.
S5-S6 Lay down square. Draw construction line upwards from S6-B3
S6-B3 Fins point G2 at midway between S6-B3
G2-G3 Breadth of seat (as calculated previously by the formula 1/4 seat width + 5cm ease = 30cm)
K3-B4 Length of topside K1-b1 is carried over to here
M3-B4 sweep across in an arc to find the height of the underside and mark point B5
B5-B6 Construction line for the height of waist band
G3-m measure this distance...
m-G4 ...and carry over the measure after adding 1cm to find the point of the leg seam
G4-K4 Construction line for the leg seam and form point S4

Abb 535 The Completed Underside
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S4- Tip of leg seam = displace downwards 1/2cm
S4-d Form leg seam according to pattern
B6-B7 Breadth of waist = 1/4. Waist width + 2.5-3cm
B7-B4 = shortfall or excess
B4-c complete side seam elegantly according to diagram
B6-S4 Seat seam is completed as shown

Darts: the left over width is given to the darts which form completed seam. The form and position is as shown.

B6-B4 waistband edge as per diagram

Particularly with narrow trousers they must be worked up with the iron to keep their shape.

All seams have been allowed for (7.5mm width). However, the seat seam and darts represent "finished seams" - that is they have no seams allowed. Inlays need to be added.

The full original text from the XVI Ed of Der Zuschnitt (Mueller & Sons) circa 1962:

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

It should also be mentioned that those interested in the latest version of the Rundschau system should subscribe to the English language edition of the Rundschau journal:

http://www.cutterand...p?showtopic=541

Readers are requested not to post the current system, but rather to subscribe to the journal.

#2 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:51 AM

How does the Rundshau compensate in its draft for corpulent figures?
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#3 Sator

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:54 AM

One of these days I will translate the sections on cutting for disproportion. That will be several evening's work however...

#4 Kevin Koch

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 01:18 AM

Sator, if I missed it somewhere I am sorry, but can you tell me what the circa/date of this XVI edition is?
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#5 Schneidergott

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 02:07 AM

I think the book is late 50's. The calculations haven't changed much, though. I think I have a more recent draft somewhere...

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

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#6 jcsprowls

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 11:14 AM

I like that the measuring instructions place the bottom of the waistband at the crest above the hip. The waistband, then, becomes additive, based on the curtain you want to insert (e.g. pre-made 1 1/2" or some other). And, this is more representative of the "trouser waist" - eliminating the confusion of measuring the "true waist", instead.

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#7 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 22 April 2010 - 11:59 AM

Sator, if I missed it somewhere I am sorry, but can you tell me what the circa/date of this XVI edition is?


The book is from 1959.

Those are normal trousers not to tight.

In order to draft them a little more modern take off 0.5cm in the back pattern, 1/4 Gw. + 4.5 and in the front tip 1/20 Gw + 0.5 cm and forget about the dress. But mind the Spaltdurchmesser at M - m probably 1.5cm instead of 1.0cm.
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#8 J.Kelner

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 10:19 AM

Hey guys! I'm currently transcribing the directions for this, and I noticed there's a small section missing perhaps! It's on RundschauTrousers003.jpg

After this:

(For trousers without pleats, the width of the waistband on the topside at the level of the hips becomes somewhat narrower, usually something desirable when the pleats are left out)

(missing instruction):

"m-S6 Schrittdurchmesser der Hinter-hose = 1/4 Gesäßbreite (von 30 = 7,5 cm)"



This is however shown on the translated text instructions erroneously:

m-S5 Standard angle = placement 1.5cm higher

I believe it should read:
S-S5 Standard angle = placement 1.5cm higher

Could anyone translate that one missing line, please? :)

Thanks!

Edit: Ahhah! Schritt! Yes, my German friend helped me out. I know now what a Schritt is...

"durchmesser"... the "diameter".. ... Figures THAT'S the part that's got to be missing. XD

So: "point m to S6 The inseam diameter(?) of the back pant piece = 1/4 the seat length (which is in this case 7.5cm)"

Edited by J. Kelner, 06 September 2010 - 12:36 PM.


#9 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 02:42 PM

Yay for German friends, they are good for translations, cars and a good foe to wage war against (not like those run and hide IED making cowards we seem to keep fighting now).

God Bless the Germans and their Sense of Humour :D
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#10 J.Kelner

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 07:32 PM

Hehe :)

I was wondering if "depth" might be more accurate. -durchmesser is the word, but in the context of tailoring, "diameter" doesn't seem to make much sense since it's a 2-dimensional diagram. It seems to be a measurement unique for the entire draft; in the diagram, it has that heavy black line above it.

#11 Schneidergott

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:24 AM

I have no idea why it is called "diameter" since there is no circle involved.

The angle of the line from S6 (fixated point) to S5 determines the position of the rear seat seam at G2 and the length of the rear trousers in general.

The longer the distance from S to S5 the straighter the rear seat seam will be. Since G3 depends on G2 it also effects the run of the rear side seam.

This draft is from the 50's and the trousers were cut to be comfortable in the back, which means that you should shift point S5 to a higher position. In an edition from 1974 the distance from S to S5 is 2,5cm.
Leave enough inlays at all seams of the rear trousers in case you want to do some changes.

"Nur der ist Meister seiner Kunst, der immer sucht, das Gute zu verbessern und niemals glaubt, das Beste schon zu haben."
"Only he is a master of his art who always seeks to improve the good and never believes to have the best already"

http://www.dressedwell.net/ It's snarky, but fun.


#12 J.Kelner

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:43 AM

Once again, I'm thankful that I trusted my instinct and waited for the professional expertise of the board. How would you properly word the translation, Schneidergott? I'm making a PDF of the instructions that I was going to share with the group after.

#13 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 07:57 AM

I'm thankful that I trusted my instinct and waited for the professional expertise of the board.


You've had it since the very beginning, we just didn't tell you what you wanted to hear but what you needed to hear.
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#14 J.Kelner

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:13 AM

So do I get my cookie? :)

Posted Image


Here's what I'm making, by the way. This is just a screen-resolution shot of it. The actual piece is in tabloid size, PDF.

Posted Image

That's why I need to have the most precise translation for m-S6

Edited by J. Kelner, 07 September 2010 - 09:23 AM.

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#15 J. Maclochlainn

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 02:36 PM

sexy... perhaps you will serve the Sartorial Lord well muahahahaha
Silly Cognoscenti, Drape is for windows!

#16 J.Kelner

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:25 PM

Why thank you :) I've been making things like this for a while now. What I really hope to do eventually is remake some of those old tailoring books in full, but this is a start. What I'm going to do is try making a pattern using these instructions and find out if there's any errors that I haven't noticed yet, or anything else that needs translation before I actually put out the final PDF. I figure there's no better scrutiny than my own beginners mind.

Edited by J. Kelner, 07 September 2010 - 04:36 PM.


#17 J.Kelner

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Posted 10 September 2010 - 10:07 PM

Looks like there's another instruction missing from the translated set:

"G2-G3 Breadth of seat (as calculated previously by the formula 1/4 seat width + 5cm ease = 30cm)
K3-G3 Line of construction for side seam.
K3-B4 Length of topside K1-b1 is carried over to here"
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#18 Der Zuschneider

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 01:38 PM

Diameter because it is the distance within a circle you don't draw. But with the tape you do the movement.
RS just call it like that, they just use the term.
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